Very good :eek:

My name is Zooker, its aircraft that I spot,
But I know F&%$k all about ATC, not even a jot,
Im jealous of ATCOs and their healthy pay cheque,
But I wouldnt make it, and so Im envious as heck!
So I go on their forum and pretend to belong,
But every post I write is inaccurate, random and wrong.
They all insult me so I fight back pretending to know,
When really I know nothing of where Fidgell is going to go,
But at least I got attention and Fidgell took the time,
Glad he's an ATCO though as he's got no career in ryhme.
So I give my all to be in the group I so desperately desire,
My bedsits looking shabby next to the ATCOs empire,
So its scanner, tissues and hand cream for me, a woman is no go,
And friends would be nice, my life is empty and low,
So ill carry on trying to join in - It must be worth a punt...
Yet they all really know the truth - Im really a useless ( fill in here please )

There's five minutes of my life I wont get back. Maybe this could be the start of a new thread. ATCO meets Pam Ayres....:ok:

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D.

ayrprox,
thank-you for your kind comments :ok:.

Fidgell,
On further examination, I notice a lack of stanzas in your work, in fact, it resembles a set of lyrics by the 1970's progressive rock group 'YES'.
Are you "Close To The Edge", Fidgell?
You will be when you're living on the Ayrshire Riviera :}:}

...And after 6 pints of 70 shilling, he will be "Fragile", unless he is sick in the "Topographic Ocean"

I did a year at ScATCC, back in the early 80s....364 days too long!

But I do agree with an earlier post, if I was having to live anywhere up there, I would plump for Troon......-

Of course another major tourist attraction of the Ayrshire Riviera is Hunterston B, 19 miles up the coast :uhoh:.
Another 'Glow-In-The-Dark' deep-fried Mars Bar please :E.

Ayrshire
 

Now that you have all got that out of your system and slagged off Ayrshire, I wish to say a different word.
The area suffers badly from social deprivation, as does much of a lot of Scotland. The traditional industries have gone, and the new wonder jobs and industries that were to come in and replace them stayed only as long as the government subsidies lasted. . . . Prestwick Circuits, Hyster, Volvo, Stonefield Truck, Hewlett Packard, etc etc
I worked with a good number of Ayrshire men who had worked in the regional division of British Aerospace at Prestwick – every one of them was the salt of the earth.
When you read the Ayrshire Post on a Thursday, there is a full page of Masonic Notices. There is only half a page of church notices!

When all is said and done, Prestwick still isn't as big a Sh1thole as West Drayton. or most of Manchester

Manchester: home to the poorest children in Britain

2006-07 Crime figures

Violent crime (per 1,000 of population)
National average: 16.7
Manchester: 32.7

Robbery
National average: 1.2
Manchester: 8.3

Vehicle theft
National average: 2.9
Manchester: 8.9

Burglary
National average: 4.3
Manchester: 16.5

I can see why you're all worried about leaving.... :ok:

15 mins out of Ayr is Coylton. Nice little town(and getting a rail link) new houses and a bookies!!!!! Feel free to PM..........................Nice 4 bed exec for sale!!!!!!!!

Comparing like with like
 

Me Me Me Me :=
What are the similar statistics for Ayrshire? :rolleyes:

That's beside the point (altho I'll look)

Point is people from Ayrshire aren't stomping around like a herd of Kevin & Perry's mumping about having to fulfill their contractual obligations of moving from what is made out to be Heaven on Earth to the scary, barren wastelands of the north, encountering roaming bands of brigands and the odd wooly mammoth.

It's a remarkably perochial and blinkered attitude... Which'll fit right in! :}

Edit: This may actually be of interest...

2006-07 Crime figures

Violent crime (per 1,000 of population)
National average: 16.7
Manchester: 32.7
South ayrshire: 2.34

Robbery
National average: 1.2
Manchester: 8.3
South Ayrshire: 0.39

Vehicle theft
National average: 2.9
Manchester: 8.9
South Ayrshire: 1.56 theft of vehicle
1.59 theft from vehicle

Burglary
National average: 4.3
Manchester: 16.5
South ayrshire : 4.92

figures are taken from crimes per 10000 people ,so have divided my figures by 10 to produce amount per 1000 people. not sure if this is creative accounting and am willing to be corrected

hope this helps

comparing like with like
 

Ahhh, but if you read the Manchester Evenng News, and make a direct comparison with the Ayrshire Post, how many columns of Masonic Notices and Church Notices are there?Obviously the reason for significantly higher crime figures in the Manchester area is due to a complete lack of Masons in Manchester

If we have to do a crime tit for tat list, then surely fair to do Glasgow vs Manchester?

Not sure what everyone's moaning about, it'll be wicked up there, loads of opportunities for wives and kids too, great motorway and dual carriageway connections in all directions. Yep, as someone has already said, a class above West Drayton and Manchester, which were nowhere near excellent transport links enabling you to live many miles from work and work in almost any industry.

Loads of fantastic towns and villages with nice friendly centres, and not once have I been warned to not live too rurally or the locals out that way will not take kindly to outsiders. Pass the banjo please.

Northern Monkey

totally diasagree - not many people will live in Glasgow and commute - the comparison of crime figures should be for likely place of residence at moment compared to likely place of residence after the move.

I agree Manchester V Glasgow is a fairer comparison if you are trying like for like, but that's not the issue here - the issue is people claiming Scotland is ridden with criminals, inferring that living in Ayrshire will be worse than in Manchester, from purely a crime statistic point of view

If I were from Ayrshire I'd be more concerned about finding out what % of the Manchester population were ATCOs, in order to calculate the likelyhood of those high crime rates being directly attributable to the invaders from the south :eek: :p

"MIKECR

Troon way is quite nice. Ayr is sadly not that nice these days. "

It really depends on your budget, and you cant really generalise on any one location.
South Ayrshire is virtually crime free compaired to the inner cities in the UK.
There are multi millionaires and those less fortunate in Ayr, likewise in Troon. Some are nice folk, some not so nice, but the latter are very much in the minority:)

Personally go for somewhere in Glasgow. It's close enough and you have large amenities.

However there are plenty of sea side villages around Prestwick which are lovely, and expensive to live in.:}

Dont forget its about 50-60 miles round trip(albeit motorway/dual carriageway) to commute to Prestwick from Glasgow.I am sure that adds up through the year in petrol/diesel costs.
Seems Troon seems to be the idyllic setting,yet its the place that one of NIs most "infamous" sons chose to flit to.
I would harbour a guess,but I reckon that everyone will say their own area is fine.Why would people live where they dislike?
All the towns/villages that have ATCO/ATSAs living in them must be ok,otherwise they wouldnt be in them!

Its Troon for me...been here 30 years and no complaints......That said I am lancashire born and bred and proud of it, however just returned from a week at parents on the Fylde coast (Lytham) and I know where I would rather be.....and its not Lytham!!:ok:

Current Band C council tax South Ayrshire - £1363.09 per household
Local Income Tax (top scale ATCO2) - approx £2400, my wife will have to pay her own LIT on top at 3% of her earnings.
Another axe to grind now for those making the move north? I wouldn't blame them.

LIT vs South Ayrshire Council Tax
 

South Ayrshire Council Tax Charges 2008/09
Band Council tax Sewerage West of Scotland Water Total
A
£769.30
£134.22 £118.80 £1,022.32
B
£897.52
£156.59 £138.60 £1,192.71
C
£1,025.73
£178.96 £158.40 £1,363.09
D
£1,153.95
£201.33 £178.20 £1,533.48
E
£1410.38
£246.07 £217.80 £1,874.25
F
£1,666.82
£290.81 £257.40 £2,215.03
G
£1,923.25
£335.55 £297.00 £2,555.80
H
£2,307.90
£402.66 £356.40 £3,066.96

A 2 bed flat in Prestwick attracts Band E - 4 bed detached house in Ayr Band G.

I don't think many Band2 top of scale ATCOs will be choosing a home in Band C.

Does the LIT still look so bad? Remember that not everyone earns 80K.

Cleo, you're correct I went the wrong way! Assuming Band D is the average, then the bands most ATCOs will be going for will be D-G i'd think. I'm going to pay £600 more per annum, then my wife will have to pay her 3% on top. I do think it looks bad:) You're also right in saying that not everybody is top of the scale ATCO, I stand guilty of speaking from an ATCOs point of view and assume that all ATCOs will eventually reach top of the scale.
I'm going to hope that there are some spanners thrown in the LIT works....

Spanners and a thread drift
 

Dee Mac

I'll see your spanners and raise a you a wheel wrench! :p


My income will never reach even half way to the 80K mark so I''ll be considerably better off under the SNP's LIT

The biggest financial problem moving from Manch to Scotland is the fall in house prices in England and the fact that prices in Scotland are just peaking now.
If your home in Manchester was worth £400,000 last year, it is now worth about £360,000, and will be worth about £325,000 this time next year( 4 months before PC opens). If house prices had continued to rise over this 2 year period instead of falling, your property would have been worth £480,000 in September 2009. That's a loss of £155,000. That is if you can sell your house!
The days of swapping your 4 bed detached in England for a castle in Scotland are well and truly over now.
If it was me, I would rent until the recession is over, hopefully sooner than later. ( assuming negative growth over two consecutive quarters)

Another possible issue is the Local income Tax (3-5 %)which the SNP are trying to introduce. A double income ATCO salary would equate to an anual bill of about £6,000 in "Council Tax" irrespective of whether you live in a castle or a tent :eek:
NATS sorry "nats" ( another Barron great idea) would be better spending money on additional relocation packages to have sufficient staff to man PC , rather than "beer and curry" love in sessions in Glasgow followed by "rope swinging -we are all part of the same team " antics in the Lake District. Incidentally I believe we are now called Team "A" and "B" according to the latest training announcement :}

"The biggest financial problem moving from Manch to Scotland is the fall in house prices in England and the fact that prices in Scotland are just peaking now. "

AF1

I think you will find the "Scottish Peak" is only occuring in Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Everywhere else, including South Ayrshire is falling just like the rest of the UK. Always bear in mind that the media tend to generalise when it comes to stactistics about Scotland i.e. they view the country as a whole instead of dividing it up into regions like they do with England.

I think you will find that quality homes £750K and up in South Ayrshire will sell and are selling within 2 or 3 weeks. Mostly bought by folks from Glasgow and Edinburgh. I dont know about middle range homes though, and yes you could be correct

Scottish and Manch will have two training teams one will be A , and the other........... wait for it.......... B :)

This might change though, as the "B" team may feel just that :{. But, my senior source thinks that "management" might scrub this idea (and to think of the money they spent thinking of this little gem :E) and just have one team to stop any "division", so we are all part of the same team :confused:
Confused yet ?

I have every confidence that management will get this right in the end, after a few get together sessions in the local 5***** Hotel with no expense spared on our behalf

:):)

Does anyone know how many ATCO/ATSA staff are needed to man PC , assuming its fully electronic by 2011 ? How many are actually coming up from Manchester?

Apparently the numbers will be revealed by management in December this year

I think your observation about renting is wise... I know that the company is taking some huge financial hits on properties being sold now for people who moved to the South coast en masse. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them attempt to mitigate possible huge losses on Manchester properties, for those moving north.
Holding on to your house and renting in Ayrshire may allow you to ride it out and still have your house when prices start to rise again.

If it was me I would definitely rent. Lots of people will be letting properties also, as they cant sell them, so its a good time for cheap deals.:)

ps

remember estate agents are struggling now and will tell you anything for a sale :rolleyes: