shugs,

I got in on my third application, and there were ten years between applications 2 & 3 for me. Now I'm counting the days until July.

If nothing else, it shows determination that you have tried and not given up.

Stu

Just found out I failed the :mad: online personality questionnaire.

Anyone know if its worth ringing NATS for feedback on why? Or do they really not give any feedback at all?

Shugs,

I passed second time and I've no doubt it ticks the motivation box.
Be ready for questions along the lines of "Why do you thin think you failed last time, why will it be different this time, what have you been doing during the 12 month wait to prepare etc etc"
There are plenty of other people around who failed once or twice. When you get to the college it makes no difference at all how many attempts you had.
Good luck:ok:

I'm in the same position, failed the online personality questionnaire. It was the one stage I didn't want to fall at because it's difficult to tell where I went wrong specifically. Has anyone on here failed this before and been successful in a further application? I don't want to give up but should I really be pinning all my hopes on a different outcome next year? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

hi all,

with regards to the motivational paper in the first stage of selection is the format multiple choice like the other tests? and how specific/technical are the questions ie. do I need to be memorising the date that Swanwick became operational or aircraft seating capacities/cruising levels?? I've tried searching this but couldnt find much... thanks in advace for anyone who can shed some light.

pre3sg.

motivation paper
 

Hi pre3sg,

I did stage1 on friday. The motivation paper was 30 multiple choice questions (four choices). There was only one question regarding the airplane data and that was what speed does a 737 cruise at. Although I could not remember exactly what the speed was there is only one logical answer ,450. All the others were way out. There were no dates Q's but couldnt hurt to memorise them as there are only 4 dates in the info.

The questions will presumably be different when you sit yours but i would imagine roughly the same so concentrate more on the first 13 pages of information and then gain an overview of airplane data.

Also have an understanding of how far different airports are from each other as there may be DST Q's to work out. eg how long would it take a plane to travel from eg london to Prestwick.


One word of warning though the Spatial Awareness test is a "NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!". I thought i would be ok at that but no. I dont want to scare you too much but everyone i spoke to afterwards said they had not completed it and really struggled.

There are 40 Q's split between three cube nets to be done in 20 mins. You have to look at a cube net then it will show you four cubes and you have to decide which one could be made from the cube net ( answer A - D ) or if none of them could be made (answer E) The first is reasonably straight forward as it is the standard cross pattern but nets 2 and 3 are more complex ( see below ). I seriously recommend you prepare by cutting out paper nets, drawing patterns and looking at from diff angles. Do not underestimate this test!

The nets are in the following patterns ( to the best of my memory)
* * *
**** , **** and *** (last one may be slightly different
* * ** as brain was dripping out of head at that time!)

Hope that helps. if any more questions dont hesitate to ask. All the best

correction!
 

Ooops my diagram of the nets was incorrect.

Quite ironic seeing as i struggled in the test!!



So here goes again :-

(Ignore the 0's Just there for spacing. hope it makes sense!)



1) cross pattern

2) Snake pattern
3) More complex pattern ( cant remember exactly)

thanks a lot for the information.

Here, I have one question though.
I'm French. Here in France we have this ATC school called ENAC (ICNA) and the exam selection process is REALLY tough 'cos it's all about advanced maths and physics nothing to do with aptitude tests and such.

Anyways, I failed it for the 2nd time at the written part.
I js received the results.
But fortunately I heard by some guys about NATS and I wonder how the maths and physics parts are like!
I bought some books on aptitude tests, like training books and some on mental calculation skill (in which I really suck at the moment lol)
but do you think they'll be a good help for me at least for stage 1 of the test process?

Hum, as you know, this thread has 50 pages and going through the whole package is long so could you js summarise for me the selection process that NATS uses?
like ca you give me some details about what I should expect on each stage please?

I wanna know, after applying on their website, how long should I wait 'till I receive from them confirmation of the date of my fist interview (stage1)?

I haven't applied yet BTW.

I have another Q : I read through some pages of this thread and people were talking about some aviation knowledge questions or such that we're supposed to have in one of the stage, could you confirm?
Are these questions specific questions for the airports/aviation information of England? Are you given a kinda book to study before the exam?

I still have loads of questions, but I think that's all for the while.
Could you then reply asap please.

Thanks.

Chris

Chris...

Theres no advanced maths or physics at all, its all reasoning and awareness testing.

As far as the 1st stage goes, if you get invited you usually get to choose when and where you attend, they hold them on different dates in a variety of locations (London, Manchester, Glasgow etc) and you choose one via a kind of email booking system. as i remember they then send you a pdf document of info to 'learn' which will contain all the stuff you need to know. as mentioned previously it is handy to know roughly how far certain places are apart, hard to be specific but general geographical knowledge will get you through that bit.

in my case i applied april 19th last year and was through the whole process in 7 weeks but i understand there may be longer times atm. i took my first stage on april 29th i think so 10 days time then...

any other q's pm me, but there is a lot of helpful stuff in this thread if u get time to read through it

adrian

Just got an email to say I passed the beastly 2nd stage computer tests - yay!!!:) SERIOUSLY thought that I had failed them! Thanks to everyone here for their help so far - fingers crossed for stage 3!

Btw, really quick turnaround on results - only took 24hrs from tests to email results.

Stage 3, Fri 9th May.
 

Just wondering if any of the 4 guys from last Fridays Stage 3 in London have had any feedback from H.R.? I'm still waiting myself to see if Sir Alan's gonna hire or fire me!! Besta Luck guys!! -Irish Steve :ok:

The best advice I can give anyone about to go through the Stage 3 interview is make sure you visit at least 1 control tower and 1 area centre... I visited Manston (kent), Stansted, Gibraltar (when on holiday) and Swanwick all in the last 5 weeks and it gave me so much scope and material (15mins. worth) to talk about during the interview- PRICELESS!!

Also, it's well worth reading "Air Traffic Control" by Graham Duke which I borrowed from my local library. I only read this once and the chapter about the Uberlingen Air Collision really stuck in my mind which gave me 2-3 mins. of material to talk about! My interview was 75mins long!

You will be asked some very awkward questions regarding hypothetical A.T.C. workplace scenarios including "What would you do if an A.T.C.O. friend came to work with a strong smell of Alcohol on him?" or " what would you do if a senior A.T.C.O. forced you to do a procedure different to the way you were taught by your trainer who was now on leave?" these indeed are tough questions but if you keep a cool head and answer as rationally as poss. maybe trying to think how you'd deal with these problems in your current job or workplace........ you'll be fine!

Even though I was'nt asked one single technical question other people at the same interview were so it's vital you read over the online technical notes N.A.T.S. provided you with at the earlier stages, make sure you know the basics!

Make sure you remember what you wrote on your online application as I was grilled on all previous employment and education history some of which I could barely remember which raised an eyebrow or two!!

Finally, the H.R. person will ask questions like "Have you ever been under pressure? Give me an example of a time when you failed something badly? Give me an example of a time when you worked in a team to achieve a common goal? Has someone ever made you change your mind?" ...... some of these type of questions are there to try to draw your weaknesses or faults out so when you do give an example (of say when you failed an objective) always try to finish on a positive note by saying something like "it was an invaluable experience which has given me a greater presence of mind".... blah-blah-blah!

Well I hope this has been some help, I'm still none the wiser whether I got through to the college so fingers crossed!!

Watch this Space. - Chedchenko.

You don't seem to have been mentally scarred by the interview....I guess I will have to come up with some even more cruel questions! :E

Hi all,
i am having trouble finding numbers/addresses to contact anyone in regards the tower visits. I have been attempting to visit Birmingham airport and MACC prior to my stage 2 but for the life of me cant seem to get in touch. Does anybody have any advice as to how i could contact these guys?

Gonzo Doo-Dah
 

Gonzo....... The last person I was expectin' to respond to my post was "The ATCO Maestro"..... Danke. While I have your attention what's your true feelin about people posting advice and experiences for others on these forums and is there anything you'd object to? Also, what's it like working in the worlds busiest International Airport? Do "The powers that be" look for any specific characteristics or attributes when choosing Heathrow Controllers? -Chedchenko.

The ATCO Maestro? Finally! It's only taken ten bl**dy years!!!! :}

Anyway, to your questions...

I don't object to it....not at all. Because each interview will be unique. Once you've done a few you get pretty good at ferreting out the evidence needed, and the questions I ask I can always twist them round in reaction to what the candidate says. One gets to enjoy that sort of thing after a while..... :E

On a serious note, does anyone here think that my wonderful and talented colleagues in Recruitment don't bother to occasionally skim through the largest and most popular topic on the ATC forum of the largest and most popular aviation website in the country?

You might have gathered that one of my disappointments is when I'm faced with a candidate who hasn't prepared. Those who ask on here 'How much/what sections of the document (for stages 1 and 2) do I need to learn?' grate somewhat too; Learn it. Full stop. It will stand you in good stead. If I was meeting a trainee fresh from the College at Heathrow Tower and as I handed them their copy of the Heathrow Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 2 (about two inches thick) they asked me how much/what sections of the document they had to learn, they might find themselves stuck in the outside lift for 4 hours on a freezing December morning on their own.:ugh:

As to your second question....yes; a God complex or at the very least a massive ego, arrogance, lack of integrity, that sort of thing.....:ok:

Oh yes...chiseled jaw too, gotta look good in the regulation issue Ray-Bans when walking through a packed arrivals hall on the way home....:cool:

1000th reply Gonzo - does that mean you get a prize? :E

Ray bans
 

Gonzo,
I'm sorry to say but the first mental image you provoke when you say " Chisled Jaw too, gotta look good in the regulation issue Ray-Bans" is Charlie Babbet (Tom Cruise) walking through Departures with Raymond Babbet (Dustin Hoffman) holding his portable sony T.V. "Yeah Quan-tas...... Qantas never crashed-Qantas never crashed!!" ;) By the way Gonz do you know if any Qantas aircrafts have crashed since the Rainman Wrap Party????

P.S. Regarding "a God complex" (he-he), I'm trying to get "Tom" to become the first celebrity member of My Church Of A.T. mind-Control...... I believe he likes his cults!! :)

Chedchenko.

Hurn... Baby....Hurn.
 

Well, I've been successful in getting a place at the college..... Officially! I'd like to thank all the people who posted invaluable advice about the Nats Interview process and the Controllers for their hints, tips and informative posts on pprune!! Besta luck to everyone during the N.A.T.S. interview rollercoaster ride! I might see some of you in October or Jan. '09.

Chedchenko.

Someone's merry I think!

Is it me, or does very little of that make sense?:confused:

Just to pick up on Gonzo's earlier post lack of preparation is one of my biggest gripes at interview as well. From starting at the college to validation and beyond is a steep learning curve with a lot of book work and it baffles me how some candidates expect to get onto that road without even bothering to read the stuff they are sent.

Gonzo is also correct that both HR and ATCO interviewers have no problems at all with people using this and other sites to trade hints and tips and exchange ideas. What is interesting though is the cloak of secrecy that applicants seem to think they have to draw over ever having been on here. Believe me it is usually obvious who has and who hasn't so mention it ! It is worth a couple of ticks in the preparation box.

The caution though, as I have said before, comes with people who think that information on here will help you to "beat" the process. There's loads of good stuff on here and my advice would be to focus on the info relating to the job (highs/lows, goods/bads what we do etc) and not allow yourself to get too bogged down in the "what questions did they ask" kind of stuff.

As for what we look for in Heathrow controllers we leaf through a psychology textbook - find some new and interesting personality disorders and then look for people with as many of them as possible :E:E

hello to everyone who was at Glasgow !!
 

Well ..........

Completed my stage 1 in Glasgow yesterday

As stressful as yesterday was I really enjoyed the experience I felt lucky and privileged to be there (Happy, chatty and was looking forward to having a good ol' chin wag with wannabees)...................

However as I looked around the room I was met by a sea of miserable faces (not everyone but 80%) who looked like they had been poked with a cattle prod and forced to be there ( you honestly would of thought the majority were filled with resentment or were p*****ed off that they had to take a day out of there leave!!! )

I know that people are nervous but geeezzz folks a bit of enthusiasm ......

Also I thought that some people didn't read the 'smart / casual' dress code !!!!!

Tinker x
:hmm:

I was also at the Glasgow one yesterday and I know what you mean :)

I was in the morning slot and even the girl that sat down next to me didn't give me as much as a hello.

Hope it wasn't you :p

Im glad to see that I was not the only one who thought that! For my stage 1, you could have been mistaken for thinking that you were at a funeral!!! You could have heard a pin drop in the silence, until I broke the silence by mentioning the mysterious disappearing green/red apples...;)

Don't forget guys, you want to be there, so show a bit of enthusiasm! As with most selection processes, you are being assessed all the time, not just when you are in the interview.

Littlemisstinker, my stage two was MUCH better, I had two other great guys with me (Simon and Scott, hope you made it to stage 3!) and it was a lot more laid back. Good luck for stage two!:ok:

Woozle

Tower Visit required?
 

Hello all

I have my NATS 3rd stage in just under 2 weeks, I just signed up to PPRuNe and have been reading this forum with great interest! Wish Id discovered it earlier, theres some great advice on here :)

I wondered if it is essential to have visited a tower/area control centre before the last stage? I tried at length to set something up through a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend but it fell through :uhoh:, now it feels like Im running out of time before my stage 3... Ive visited about 3 towers back home in NZ in the course of my piloting days there but I would still love to visit a tower or area control centre in the UK before my interview if possible.

Can anyone give me some advice on this, who I could contact, where/when/how I could tee up a visit??

Thanks in advance :)

Phew ..........

I thought I was the only 1 who picked up the 'atmosphere' I was in the afternoon session blue stripy shirt.

Trouble is I went there super positive and cheerful and the bad atmosphere made me even more nervous and tense .....

Did everyone else think that they did pants on the test's ?? I made the BIG mistake of looking around the room and seeing some 'intelligent' looking sorts !! scribbling eagerly away EK !!:{

But .... as someone mention quality is better than speed ...........

HHHmmm

tinker

I was also at the Stage 1 in Glasgow yesterday morning, to be honest I was a bit more than nervous and still think I completely messed up the spatial reasoning, the basic checking I found easy ( I'm sure most did as it didn't seem too hard) and diagramming was not too bad as long as I thought about each of them logically and didn't get caught up in the occasion.

I was a bit dissapointed with the amount of time we had with the serving ATCO but I suppose they have to keep to the schedule.

Then was the the motivation and learning styles stuff which I found easy as has been mentioned before as logn as you have read the document they send you you will be fine.

I have to agree with you littlemisstinker, some people obviously didn't read the smart/casual bit on the invitation... or the start time for that matter a few people were turning up 10 and 15 mins late in the morning.

Can I ask what you guys mean by this?

Well when I read smart casual I think like a shirt and jeans maybe, I personally went for the shirt and tie option and as far as I could see there was only me and one other of the 20 people there that opted for that. there were a few that that ahd gone for the shirt and jeans but there were a few who where in a t-shirt, jacket and jeans or similar (I'm sure I see one guy come in wearing a lacoste tracktop)

I suppose as stage 1 is more informal than the other stages as it is more a way to cut down on numbers etc. it does not particuarly matter but I would have imagined people showing up trying to impress with a smarter look.

I only had a shirt/jumper and jeans on, atlhough nice to make an effort I don't see what you are wearing being relevant at all at that stage.

I dont class trainers / stone wash jeans as 'smart casual' after all alot of companies work wear policy is exactly that these days .......... BUT your still not allowed to wear / jeans / tracksuits !!!

I just think its nice to make the effort, it looks like you've thought every little aspect through and are prepared to be there ......

does this make sense ??? :bored:

Do the assessors notice this ???

tinker :confused:

Yes they notice, but there's so many of you at stage 1, they can't remember all the names and who was wearing what that day.

Stage 1 is all about psychometric/motivation paper. Nothing about how you dress. Stage 2 and 3 is where it matters as there are so few of you, they'll remember this time.

As much as I like to put in the effort :) The smarter I dress the smarter I feel. Geddit?! hahahaha

I'll stop now.

Stage 1 is all about passing tests - wear whatever makes you feel comfortable. If you're going to worry that slightly shabby dress might affect your chances (it won't AT THIS STAGE) then dress smart. If you feel uncomfortable and can't relax as well in a suit then dress casual.
There is nobody from NATS 'assessing' you at stage 1.
As for the interview stages - I think only a fool would turn up in anything less than shirt and tie.
Good luck all

Afternoon everyone. I have my stage 2 next week and I think I am prepared for it. Does anyone know of any example DST questions that I can get online?

Hi pal,

There aren't many SDT questions in stage 2, maybe 3 or 4 out of the 50 question paper. I was given a tricky one whereby I was asked to calculate the ascent rate of an aircraft. Most of it is drawn from the motivation material from stage 1 and the stuff you will have been given for stage 2.

Last 1!!!
 

Hey all. Found out I passed my stage two the other day...cant BELIEVE it...for everyone who is unsure how they went...trust me...you are convinced you failed until they tell you otherwise!!! I even stopped checking my email after a week sure that I was doomed!!
Have my stage 3 on 26th june....any1 else?? am really nervous and some advice would be invaluable. I dont mean that I want any tips because as a lot of you have said I think you kinda lull yourself into a false sense of security believing that you may be able to cheat the system....
Some hints of the structure of the day and what to expect so I dont feel so overwhelmed would be much appreciated...
Cheers.

Hey Latitudehopper,

How come back in March you announced on here that you had failed stage one, now all of a sudden you're at stage three?! Did they get your stage one results wrong?

Congrats by the way, best of lucking making it all the way.

Vic

Hey Vic,

I think you'll find it was a year since he failed his first stage to him posting again this year where he passed! I could be wrong but thats the impression I got from his post dates.

FDD

Just had stage one yesterday down in london so fingers crossed was planning on going to get a look round swanick so If anyone was interested in going with me i was gonna drive down I live in norwich btw. Just thort it would be good going with someone else my email is [email protected] if anyones interested before stage 2. Also would it be possible for me to get into the july intake of students say I got through all stages. im just not sure how long it takes from stage 1 to stage 3 and the medical? cheers

July numbers are pretty much all sorted I think - I would have thought you would be more likely on the October course if you pass the Stage 3 soon.

"Hey Vic,

I think you'll find it was a year since he failed his first stage to him posting again this year where he passed! I could be wrong but thats the impression I got from his post dates.

FDD"


Thats right, the post about failing stage one was a year ago! how time flies! and in my more recent post i say that I have stage 2, havent passed it yet, that is a post to look forward to writing in a weeks time! fingers crossed.