For the record, i have done 3 assessment centres and interviews for NATS, and i also know people in the HR dept. The reason they do not give feedback has nothing to do with 'national security' (possibly the bizzarest excuse ever) and 100% o do with the fact that they have hundreds of applicants and do not have time. (Cant be bothered). You can quite easily get feedback through data protection (people have used that excuse before) but all you will get is 'you did not meet requirements for (either/or) numerical reasoning, motivation etc etc... it will not be specific.

If you failed assessment centre then yuo really have only to think of the fact that you either didnt get enough questions right on one of the papers or you did not get the 'right' answers on the personality questionairs-although i have been told that if you dont pass that you are a complete nutcase (or lying).

most likely either the maths or the motivation paper (what they are most concerned about) which, for the motivation paper you need about 70% to pass.

dont worry about feedbak, the questions you got asked in assessment will be EXACTLY the same next time round (have been for years) so take the experience and learn.

Hmmm, all these changes...getting me a tad worried - and I havn't even sat the initial selection tests yet!

I have my initial selection tests on the 31st March - if I were to pass how large is the time gap between getting my results and having an interview.

Kirk

If a candidate got all papers correct except one or possibly two such as all correct except spacial and motivation - would they still get through and all other combinations?

Also, if you were to answer half the questions correctly out of each test, but answered each would you pass - in other words is it accuracy or who is quickest to do all questions?

261A

Each test has a pass mark which must be reached, if you fail one test you do not get through. The percentage pass mark varies with each test. For example. I believe in Basic Checking the passmark is 66/80, so if you attempt 65 and get 65 correct you will fail.

I am assured that you cannot fail the personality test, it is purely for HR's benefit to work with the answers you give for any interview you get to.

I heard there were only 40 data checking questions...no?

66/80 is a pretty high mark needed to pass. I think I've nailed how to do any question they will throw at me from the 4 categories...I just need to work on speed without losing accuracy now...Still a month and a half to go though so...

Kirk

Feedback
 

Hi Darkhorse

that is a fair call that was my third and final chance when i passed last week, i get where you are comming from i found that it wasnt my ability in question it was my maturity and lack of position of responsability to get real time experience of managing real situations as they arise ,having the ability to be reactive as well as pro active.Not sure what you do at the moment but a year of something diferent may help.

As for the new style interview you still have 60 Q's without any extra info on them from the interviewer.

cheers

Kirk

I recall there are 40 numerical checking questions and 40 letter based questions. You needed to get 66/80 over the two tests.

That's true. However, those tests are designed to tell if you are trying to second guess what you think they want you to answer rather than the truth. It's worth emphasising, answer honestly, do NOT put what you think is the "right" answer. You will get found out.

The gap between the results of the selection tests and the interview is entirely up to you. You can book your own interview date.

Still no one who can tell us a bit more about the new interviews/group exercise??? That's what this topic is all about isn't it?? Maybe Bettyboop can answer the question, since she's the one that started this thread and meanwhile attended the interview. It's not very helpful to read about people that did attend the new-style interview and only say not to worry about it. Just tell us what exactly it is all about. It's not "top-secret" is it? :confused:

Certainly - you only had to ask
 

Basically, the same format is relatively still there that you've already read about on here. The only main differences are:

only 1 interview (1hr 30mins), an ATCO and some-one from HR. They'll ask you the HR questions first and the Technical stuff after (could be different for you though). I can't really help you on the content as it'll be totally different depending on which ATCO is interviewing you but the HR stuff is the same as what's on this website.

The group exercise is a board game, where you just sit around and play for half an hour following rules they give you and then are asked to discuss your strategies and where you went wrong. They sit around and watch you interacting with eachother. The game is easy,the talking about it after is the hard part as you have to fill the whole time up, 10 minutes.

As for everything else its pretty much the same.
If you want to know anything else ask me. I'm more than happy to help other people out for sure!

Betty:p

How do you current trainee ATCO applicants prepare for the selection tests?

Other than the sticky and various threads throughout this site, I assume you buy books, visit other websites etc. so what titles, sites do you use?

I have the following books which I am currently using to prepare for the selection tests:-

- How To Master Psychometric Tests Mark Parkinson
- How To Win At Aptitude Tests Iain Maitland
- Test Your IQ H.J Eysenk
- Abc Of Air Traffic Control Graham Duke

Hope this helps,

Kirk

Motivation Test
 

Is the new 'Motivation Test' in the new style interview day simply the technical interview renamed or is it a test along the lines of the motivation test that we all did at the initial assessment day?

Cheers Kirk for those titles.

Any Spatial Reasoning books available? Books I have do not have the 'flat' sqaures that feature in the selection tests.

Spatial Reasoning Practice
 

For those of you that find Spatial Reasoning tricky...

'How To Win At Aptitude Tests' Iain Maitland

This book contains numerous examples of the folding cube exercise.

The Psychometric Test book by Parkinson is fantastic and well worth the money.

In general there isn't a huge amount of practice you can get on spatial reasoning but here are a few sites that Parkinson recommends for practice papers etc...

http://www.profilingforsuccess.com
http://www.shldirect.com
http://www.faststream.gov.uk
http://www.ase-solutions.co.uk
http://www.morrisby.com
http://www.ukcoursefinder.co.uk
http://www.testingroom.com
http://www.allthetests.com
http://www.psychtesting.co.uk

My friend has recently been given an offer as an Investment Banker in the City with ABN. He had similar selection style tests, and gave me some practice papers. SHL are widely used by many recruiting companies. My friend told me to look on the JP Morgan website too.

McKinsey & Co. a high-end consulting firm also offer some guidance at http://www.mckinsey.com - This might be going a bit too advanced but it gives you an idea.

Hope this helps,

Kirk

Kirk,

The book title you quote - I looked it up on amazon and the review says the book tests are very bad and full of errors? Can you confirm this or is the book good to practice spatial tests?

Have visited all the sites you listed and most of them are useless as they are asking for registration and don't work in one way or another. :confused:

Thanks for the titles and sites though - some are good so every little helps!

On the same topic, can an ATCO confirm or anyone what the current tests at selection stage are?

Cwmbran Training College
 

Hi 261A,
Looks like we are in the same boat! My NATS application got accepted which I'm particularly excited about!
I don't know if you have tried these people yet but I've been in contact with the Cwmbran Training College, i had a horrible feeling about the aptitude tests so I thought I could find extra training somewhere.
The head of the ATC training is Steven Ward. He has been an excellent help to me and even offered for me to take a look round the college and have a chat with the students and instructors there just to get an idea and feel for the tests. He gave great advice! Don't know if that helps though?

Wish you luck for the 31st though!

Nicki :)

Help!!
 

OK, having looked around the forum and posting my own (Help!!!) thread, im getting particularly worried about my assessment day, do I really need to go out and buy books just to pass a recruitment test? Or will a hunt round the internet for info and some practice tests suffice?? I'v been put in touch with an ATCO who is going to try and get me into the Manchester center for a day, so obviously I will be able to discuss the job and get pointers from people, but as for the tests! I'm what could be construed as being a wee bit nervous!

Don't worry about being nervous - I am in process of writing my application same age as you roughly (18 in March).

I do however, think that you should do quite a bit of preparation but then I am just a mere applicant (nearly) so what would I know!

I would like to know the list of tests so I can find relevant revision, practice tests etc. in books or online.

The aptitude book is slightly dated but neverless offers good practice for all the arithmatic and spatial reasoning questions we'll be tested on...

I don't sit my tests until the 31st March but I believe the type of tests we will sit are as follows:

- Numerical Reasoning (30 questions in 10 mins)
- Spatial Reasoning (40 questions in 20 mins)
- Diagrammatic Reasoning (40 questions in 20 mins)
- Data Checking (40 questions in 5 mins)

- Motivation Paper (30 questions in 20 mins)

- Personality Questionnaire (248 questions)


Just get as much practice as you can...and as for books, look on Amazon pre-owned or eBay for the cheapest prices.

Good luck!

Kirk

Flower pointed out somewhere that some of the information in the 'sticky' at the top of this Forum is out of date. She's absolutely spot on :ok:

Hopefully we are about start working on providing individual threads for NATS which will highlight the relevant updated facts regarding the general application aspects, the tests, interview topics, etc, etc. These threads will then be linked via a 'sticky' FAQ at the top of the Forum. Once these are in place, there will be no need for anyone to post the same questions week after week (or month after month) - cutting down some of the trees so we can see the wood.

Watch this space :ok:

Kirk,
Can you explain what is involved in the diagrammatic reasoning?

Also, check your PMs!

Cheers

261A:

Diagrammatic reasoning involves a set of 3 or more squares each containing a shape which may be shaded/unshaded or partially shaded. Next to each of the squares is a diagrammatic instruction which tells you to do something to the shape inside the square. Working downwards you have to complete all the instructions until you are finished with a new set of squares. The new set will match one of the answers you can choose from.

The diamgrammating instructions are as follows:
- Shade the whole shape in
- Alternate shade (i.e. if the shape is a square which has been divided in 2 and shaded on the left side, you would clear the left side and shade in the right side.
- Swap the shape with the shape in the square below
- The shape replaces the shape in the square above

Might sound a bit complicated but it gives you an idea. I'll try finding some practice examples online for you...

Kirk

Ok sounds a bit complicated with the instructions!

Cheers

Tests.
 

I found the following book very useful:

'Psychometric Tests for Graduates' by Andrea Shavick

All the test examples within are by SHL Group, who are the company responsible for setting the NATS tests. A happy by product of this is the examples are identical in format to the ones given at the assessment day.

I'd be more than happy to let someone have the book free of charge as i've already done the test day. Anyone who wants it PM me with where you want it sent.

It is some 16 years since I did the tests, we didn't know what to expect or have samples to try out before hand. Knowing however that we would be doing paper and pencil tests I spent hours and hours doing the types of tests that MENSA give you plus lots of logic type problems crosswords etc. They get your brain thinking quickly in a certain way.
Although you need to do some prep for them what they are looking for is your type of reasoning, no amount of cramming will really change the way your brain works so don't get yourself so uptight about the tests.

G-UNIT does that book has test examples of all the tests if not all then does it include spatial and digrammatic test examples?

Check your PMs

Yes, it has examples of both the spatial and diagramatic tests. They are exactly as you see in the test proper.

The only caveat I would add is that the examples (for diagramatic test) have only four or five commands as opposed to seven or eight in the actual test. (the extra ones are evil e.g. reverse the order, position 1 put in position 3, 2 to 4, 3 to 1 etc) truely horrible. I'd also add that its only the last dozen or so on the test that use these more difficult commands.

Books for the aptitude tests????
 

You don't need to buy books for the aptitude tests. These tests are designed to be made after a 5 minute explanation, and believe me... they are NOT that difficult. The stories of people that tell you the tests are extremely hard come from the people that made it through these tests and who like to believe (or make you believe) they made it because they are extremely good and talented.

Reading all these books just makes you extra nervous. Stick to studying the "introduction to" booklet. Apart from that look at the test examples on the website that is mentioned in the sticky interview thread, so you know what to expect. All I can say is... don't worry about these tests!!! If you have the talent to be an ATCO you will very easily pass the aptitude test.

Buying and reading all those books is a waste of money and a waste of time in my opinion! :cool:

To be honest here, I never bought any books in regards to the selection tests but soley concentrated on the motivation paper

I simply brushed up on my basic mental arithmetic but that was about it, it's all about performing on the day under the time restriction and pressure, this will differentiate the potential candiates with suitable aptitudes to those who don't

I know it sounds silly, but don't over revise on the aptitude tests and keep a cool head......;)

selection tests manchester
 

Hi im new to the forum but found it very useful. Is anyone attending the sleection tests in manchester on the 5th of april. Even after reading all the posts i still dont know really what to expect. With me only been 18 also i just don't feel there is much chance

russ148,

The aptitude tests and interviews are there to look for people who may have the right aptitude to become ATCOs. They are not there looking for people already qualified as ATCOs.
Although the tests are far from perfect they are looking for that certain something which you either have or not, age doesn't reflect that. You may be 40 and useless and 16 and perfect.
No doubt if you have been reading through all the threads of late then you will see the starting salary through the college is low, there is a good chance therefore that the age of many applicants will be a lot younger than in the past.

There seems to be way to much worrying and panic from people going in to the tests, you can prepare yourself for interview and if you didn't you would have to question your desire to do the job but the aptitude tests are there to judge one thing and one thing only, do you have the aptitude to train to become an ATCO. Go in do the tests and take from it what you can. There are plenty who are young who pass, and a good number told to come back a year later.

To everyone here stop getting so stressed out by it, if you are stressed by tests you wont go very far in ATC.

FAO rikvanteinde & Flower
 

Thank you for the voices of reason, i was told to look at these forums for some advice and what i saw made me panic abit, i was only going to revise for the motivation paper and the maths paper, as a level psychology explains aptititude tests as something that can't be revised for, and therefore I was safe in the knowledge that I could only do my best! After reading the threads I panicked because of all the talk of books and crazy revising, as im sure many others are. However I'm back to my confident self now and I'm pretty sure I'll be fine on the assessment, well, maybe the maths will shake me abit, but we'll see!

Hey, just wondering if anyone's at Novotel on the 28th? It's my final permitted attempt at the interview, I'm trying not to get too worked up! Just trying to remember as much as I can and to brush up my interview technique.

There are no math questions, just numerical problem solving. These are quite easy (some find them extremely difficult, but if you don't need a calculator to solve numerical problems with broken numbers [is that English??? I mean 1/2, 1/3, 4/5 etc...] you should be fine).

The easiest question is: 37 - ... = 26 A.9 [B.11] C.12 D.8
or: 25 ... 5 = 5 A.- B.+ [C./] D.X (not kidding)
It doesn get much harder than: 1/3 X ... = 1/6 X 24 [A.12] B.etc...
Consequently you may have to do 1 or 2 multiplications or tail divisions (again, is this English??? I'm Dutch, so sorry if it sounds stupid :O ) on paper.

Please correct me if I'm wrong! :ok:

HI Dear

Where is the questionaire? I couldn't find it. :confused: :confused: I am new here and will have my one day test 1st March. Thanks!

Feedback and Data Protection Act...
 

I've asked about feedback - NATS says it will now give feedback to candidates following the Assessment Centre Day, which great if they really mean it. They don't give feedback from test days because it would be pretty pointless - a computer scores the papers and a yes/no answer comes out.

It's a case of "computer says no!" - if you ask for more info under data protection act they will probably give you the figures to back up the answer but it will still be a "no".

The personality questionnaire is not used, as far as I know, to make the decsion about calling people for interview.

I have been following this thread with interest - I am only 15 and studying towards my GCSEs and am hopefully going to apply as soon as I am 18 to be a trainee ATCO with NATS.

I would like to ask 2 questions if I could about applying in the future - 2009 when I will be 18.

1. I would like to know whether the aptitude/selection tests will be the same or have the same tests as they do right now as in spatial, diagrammatic reasoning, numerical reasoning, checking, motivation papaer and personality questionnaire.

2. Will the College of Air Traffic Control still be next to Bournemouth Airport by 2009? I read somewhere on these forums that it would possibly move to Whiteley at the NATS technical and comms centre near to LACC, Swanwick - would this be before or after 2009?

Any answers will be most appreciated as I would like to start looking at the books recommended on here and preparing years in advance for the tests. A bit :8 I know!

Feel free to PM if you need.

Hi every one:

I want to ask are all these part of test on the day all multi choice or any of then needs write down the anwers, such as the question about the word document we had. Thanks!

Are you allowed scrap paper to use for the numerical tests?