We all seem to be arguing around the same point: If we can manage to get a few people away ahead of the end of the shift and still fulfill the contingency/legal requirements, then the financial cost is nil and accrues goodwill for the times you need it. But it is not a RIGHT.

Avman's last paragraph concerns me. If it means that the inability to offer early goes is affecting cooperation within the core shifts, then it's not management who needs to re-examine their attitude!

Those people who constantly refer to their 'rights' and what the 'legal requirements' as a reason not to be flexible had better think twice about where this could head. You stick to the letter of the agreements and management do the same. Result: Everyone stays to the end irrespective of traffic or staff volumes. Give a little during the day and you might get something back in the evening.

Someone who plans an evening's activities when they are rostered to 2200 needs their head examining!

:confused: :confused: I never suggested it to be a right, nor have I personally considered it to be one. I basically said what you said in your first paragraph eyeinthesky.

Modern day managers no longer understand the virtues of a flexible (within reason) approach. The outcome is ultimately not cost efficient.

unfortunately, as earlier stated, the avaition industry is ruled by bean counters (accountants). these so called professionals have no idea about operational work, in fact they cause more problems and probably lose money for the industry. the tide will turn over the next 10 years when they realise that they cannot get the staff because the industry is now so undermined that good people will turn to other better paid professions. due to this decline aviation will not be as safe as it is now. it is a shame that the safest industry in the world is being run by people who do not know how to run it.

eye in the sky Having worked with Avman for many years I can only agree with his statements re the management. Just before I was medically retired (I fell asleep during a meeting and my yellow peril was yanked) it was considerd normal to work an early shift, attend a meeting - which could last from 1400 to 1800 - and then return for a night duty. Maximum working periods and breaks were deemed not to exist for Supervisors.
The reigns have been tightened so much that the morale of staff there has reached rock-bottom and is now digging into the bedrock. Management has zero creditability and a strike was recently nly narrowly averted, however it remains a distinct possibility.
Please note, this has actually nothing whatsoever to do with EGs, late comes, whatever. Most of the staff are adult enough to realise that these were a perk, granted only when and if possible. In fact as a Supervisor my watch did not keep track of these, it was done, again I stress, when possible , on a basis of who wanted, or needed it, most.

Lon More

Out of interest, who is the Regulator for Limbabwe ... and do they approve such working practices as you report ??

PPRuNe Radar, they are a law onto themselves. They abide by, or ignore, national law at their convenience. Only option is to challenge through the European Court of Justice, a lengthy and very expensive process.

Same unit as Lon More, the simulator pilots are made to work split shifts 0730-1100 and 1700-2100 at weekends. They're on limited contracts. Nothing about split shifts in their contract. If they complain they're out! Union doing sod all about it!

I didn't quite understand Avman's comment, that's why I said "If it means.. ".

Now you have elaborated, I see that I had it the wrong way around. Sorry for the apparent besmirching of your thoughts! :O

PPRune Radar, as the meeting was with Head of Division to advise us of changes to our working system, in the interests of safety and efficiency, attendance was compulsory.