The TAG Offer
 

Is the Bonus offer that I heard true? 2% on completion of PPP. 1% when(!) NERC opens, all non-pensionable.Not alot is it.

sorry, but what bonus is this?
I've lost track...

To replace the one that Cheese and Ham and Co. said we could not have.

Aaaghhh......

I take it you are using TAG in the context of "The Airline Group" as oposed to TAG as in TAG Aviation. (Owners of EGLF and other bizjet places).

Got all excited there....!

over & out,

(sorry to appear so thick)

is this bonus on offer as a response to our supplementry pay claim as a result of us not geting the expected performance bonus?

if so, I for one say they can **** right off, and that goes for any IPMS rep or anyone else who tries to sell me such a deal...

in the words of The Who, "Won't get fooled again"

Speaking to my union rep about this one today.
It would see that the union will not be recommending anything on this offer, just putting it to the vote.
The generaloinion at my unit is for TAG to get stuffed. They're running scared, they don't want to walk into a major dispute and are trying to buy us off with a mere 2% and 1% if NERC ever opens.
As far as I can tell the industrial action ballot will still go ahead as planned (once all the union bods have agreed), There will be a separate ballot on the TAG offer.
So a yes for strike and a no for TAG offer will certainly increase our bargining power and stack the odds in our favour for a change.
Just waitig for ore details at the moment!

Once again this offer is dependant on events totally outside the control of the staff.
If PPP fails, then we don't get the dosh. But more importantly should there really be a financial reward for the WHOLE company on the successful opening of NERC.
People at LATCC were hacked off over all getting the bonus for commencement of OCT. The trainig for NERC is really not up to scratch, so this is the last thing we should be relying on for extra money.
I saw an e-mail from the new HR director yesterday saying this was a way forward ,and a way to head off problems over the next pay round, well I think what we have now ain't half of whats going to happen early next year.
Anyway how can units other than LATCC AC vote for something that they have no idea on the progress of ie NERC , and then if something causes a delay then management have already started to drive a wedge between the individual units. We must stick together over these next few years.

If TAG are getting back £200m ,then 2-3% of base salary is next to sod all.
Even if you include everyone in NATS, hopefully SMG are excluded, then it works out at £40,000 each!!!!!!!!
That would buy some goodwill for 2-3 years.

[ 18 July 2001: Message edited by: Ahh-40612 ]

There are two issues here I think.

1. Dealing with the original bonus that we were 'promised' if we all met the projected targets, and

2. That is totally separate to any payment we get when TAG take over, or when NERC opens. We will only get this latter bonus IF TAG take over, or IF NERC opens.

Management I think believe they are being clever by clouding the issue, or at least attempting to, but the original dispute of the bonus is still in dispute. If they want to give us some extra money when TAG take over and also some extra money when NERC opens, then fine I will take that too. BUT, I WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS ATTEMPTED CLOUDING OF THE ORIGINAL ISSUE OF THE BONUS.

I will still be taking my flask of coffee to the line when the time comes!!!!!!!

(I believe this is a view of most people at a certain unit)

(And that was my 2p's worth )

LORI
:rolleyes: :mad: :eek: :p

[ 18 July 2001: Message edited by: left outer, right inner ]

Also doesn't this offer completely undermine Cheese & Hams'position that the money was no longer available due to the turndown in traffic?
The message from IPMS also states that "The second stage is marking the opening of Swanwick without a date being fixed..." . Is this the first sign official sign that NERC is about to be delayed???? if this is not the case then why not a guarantee that all will get the 1% at the end of January 2002.

Yes, One does get the view that this rather undermines Mr Cheesy Hams position.

Could be that TAG are less than impressed with current style and tone of current Slave Drivers. After all who in their right mind would try to bull!!!!! ones staff whilst being totally dependent on them for the NERC 'O date' to actually be 'O'.

Sorry to be such a bore, but I actually think we should give TAG a chance to prove themselves. The bonus issue is dead so any offer is better than NATS was prepared to provide. I agree with all and sundry that this is completely due to current idiots bad faith; but why are we all surprised: they are idiots!!!

It's much more interesting what they are going to do when confronted with the 2002 pay claim, especially with Pilot salaries in Europe forging ahead ( thank you My Ryan!!. So whilst likely to be very unpopular, I say take the money and make the 2002 pay claim (on the same day!!). ;)

from the info I've seen, I got the impression that management wanted us to agree to a new bonus payment of 2.5% for this year (01-02).
IPMS said they wouldn't discuss any new bonus as these schemes have been discredited by management's actions and submitted a supplementary claim of 4% to cover the shortfall from last year(00-01).
Now management say there is 3% available as long as we agree to a new bonus scheme.

Are they trying to buy our compliance with an extra 0.5% ?

I think we are worth a great deal more.

from the way i understand it, the AG's payment of 2% in August and 1% in
january is not to be classed as a bonus as such but a welcome payment and as a result is in no way connected to the non-payment of our bonus this year.

I also understand the January payment is a goodwill payment and will be paid regardless whether NERC opens or not.

Anyone care to comment?..... :confused:

This bonus malarky has been a very public demonstration of a fundamental lack of honesty in our management and I think it important that they be confronted with it.

They misled us in the first place by telling us that the Bonus was an excuse to give us the money that they really wanted to give us but weren't allowed to. (Perhaps it was just a way of getting a pay deal through so that there was no trouble during PPP.) Then when we get upset about its non payment they come up with another excuse to try and buy off trouble.

I believe it's not the first time our management have been publicly dishonest. Wasn't it Mr Cheese and ham that deliberately gave a radio station the impression that there were no staffing problems in ATC. He used the truth in a way that covered a falsehood.

All along NATS has told the public that it puts safety first - I have never accepted that as true either. The pressure that our management run our system at encourages the cutting of corners which is a danger itself.

Until we have a mangement team that is honest with us, the public and importantly the government, nothing will change and we will not get the infrastructure that we so desperately need. :mad:

Heres my two pence worth....

1) IPMS, stick to your guns on no more bonus type issues & continue to ballot on supplementary pay claim refusal.

2) Refuse to talk about silly bonuses of 1 & 2% for yet again issues that a good percentage of NATS can not influence.

3) Fellow workers....vote "NO" to this bunch of Junk being put to us. For once in our lives lets not let management buy is out at the eleventh hour with a quick wedge of cash!

If they can buy us this month with this, then its the final straw to proving how little backbone we have.

Did I say two pence worth! sorry, i meant a quid ! :D

Couldn't agree more.

There are two separate issues here, as highlighted above. Any payment or golden handshake that TAG wish to give us is completely separate from the bonus issue.

We were deliberately misled. The suplimentary pay claim addresses that falsehood.

The Airline Group need, to paraphrase BASIL FAWLTY, to and instruct Cheese and Ham to apologise, pay up, and leave. That would have a tremendous impact on morale, would it not??

Strike action? Well, lets have the ballot. I'll go along with whatever the majority decide. I for one could do with a day off. One, I get a rest and two, the message might get thru that we've HAD ENOUGH.

Rgds BEX

Do not be fooled by this cheap bribe, lets stick to our guns and use that well dried powder. What we must now do is reinforce support and solidarity thruout the company or this stand which is so important now will falter. Do not sell out for £500, we can do it!

I share your total frustration with Cheese and Ham and his cohorts’
complete disregard for the truth and fair dealings with this staff.
The predicament you are in now is a combination of this, and
the total lack of open and honest leadership from your union.
But STOP and THINK. Most of you will not remember the strike ridden
years of the 70’s - hardly any strikes produced a positive result for those who
took the action. If strikes were so effective, why don’t unions lead the way on
strikes any more? If you strike, you come back in on their terms, not yours.
Sure you candream up effective action that will force Cheese and
Ham’s hand from inside the gate.
WAKE UP. He knows how many of you have big mortgages.
All you will do is lose public support (think of the spin! - £50,000
a year controller working 35 hours week ruining your holidays for
less than 3% bonus&#8230 ;) and everything that has and will continue to go wrong
with NERC will be your fault.
By the way, has anyone worked out or asked what management’s bonus will be
IF NERC opens on time. Bet it does.

4% Consolidated to restore some good will and start off with a clean slate :D

Anything less and I'll vote for strike action :mad:

After having been prepared to give bonuses a try, I'm now not interested in any bonus scheme that I can't directly have an input in achieving.

How abut Geoffrey Archer for Chizzes job - hes got the right qualities.

I understand that LATCC management wish to meet IPMS to discuss changes to the national working practices agreement. Topics include possible overtime in AC to get around the fact that management now realise that the ratio of instructors to students on the C&D modules is not going to get the required results.
The August watch rosters have been issued only upto 10th Aug , whilst they try to persuade people to go to NERC when not expected to do so.
The roster was published with a letter of apology from DGM AC(A.L) and Mgr Ops Swanwick (R.H). But even then the 1st paragraph was a lie, as the NTT recommended the ratio of 2:1 as long ago as January. At this rate they'll be realising that they don't really have the staff to open it properly anyway!!!!!

torpids....

Any industrial action will have to be presented honestly, but providing provision of people to NERC isn't affected, which could lead to accusations of "NERC ain't gonna open because the staff weren't cooperative" (untrue), then IPMS and it's members have little to fear.

As for the strikes of the 1970's, well do YOU remember the Fire Fighters strike? No? Well let me enlighten you. The Fire Brigades Union (FBU) had forged an agreement with the Home Office and Local Authority Employers to bring it's members wages up to a reasonable level by an inflation plus index. They had to do this because recruitment and more importantly retention (sound familiar?) were becoming a serious problem.

In 1978 the agreement was unilaterally recinded by the "employers" with the excuse that "we could never have afforded it anyway" and government policy has changed. It was insinuated that the FBU knew this all along (Still sound familiar??)

Cue the six week strike. Well, the FBU won. They went back, on MUCH better terms than the original agreement and (thankfully) we haven't had a national FireFighters strike since then.

Yes there were other disputes, but I see a lot in common here, not least of which is the root cause. Appalling inept management.

Rgds BEX