NERC tail wags LATCC dog again
 

I hear that NERC has identified a "requirement" for a very early shutdown of HCS (the main computer that serves LATCC, ScATCC, Manchester and the major airports) for the evening of Friday August 10th. The safety/delay implications of not having a computer for an extended period over one of the busiest weekends of the year are obvious. LATCC management naturally said "NO!!!", but then came the word from above - Mr Cheese-Ham himself decrees "make it so".

I'm sure that local LATCC management, the FMU and the CSCs will do their best to ensure that the traffic flows are such as can be safety handled in the circumstances, but I expect the delays to be massive.

Just how long do we have to continue with the myth that January 2002 will produce a safe and viable ATC system from the Dome? Isn't it about time that the airlines stopped this nonsense?

Hadn't heard about the shutdown, but here's another question.

How many participants on the Shakedowns for the "B" modules actually got signed off? Rumour has it that NONE were. Not exactly what NERC Training were expecting, they thought they'd get at least a few ticks in the box.

Are six goes at the Planner role enough to feel confident? Apparently not. If this is indeed the case it has implications for the WHOLE of OCT. That is participants requiring more time than is available. Time is short and JAN26/27 2002 is coming up fast.

It's a pity that these issues end up being aired here but if any of the AirLine Group read this, it's because internal NATS communications are so poor. I hope you people get to read these threds, cos I WANT THINGS TO GET BETTER. They aren't, so far, ask LMQ (authors of another buried report, or are you actually gonna come clean this time?)

Kindest rgds
BEX

I was on a B Shakedown, and NOBODY was happy o get signed off, nor were the NTT wanting to do so.

The exercises were nowhere near realistic enough to make me feel that after only another two days' basic training on my other sector I would be considered fully ready to operate with live traffic (emergencies training excluded). The operation of the HMI was still requiring too much thought to be able to handle 42/60 or whatever. In addition, the NTT and the MMI specialists were still writing green forms in response to various things the Sim was doing. And more time was spent discussing those than teaching. Surely by now it should be a stable, known operation which we can trust to provide a realistic representation of the NERC operation.

Another problem, which I think there are no plans to change, was the operation of the OpsSim itself. MOPS for my particular sector dictates that the Planner should take account of traffic crossing in another sector before making level offers to prevent rejects or reflects. Trouble is, on the OpsSim there is NO traffic in the neighbouring sector, and anything you offer to the input people gets accepted. Not very realistic. Traffic levels were also ridiculously low (despite assurances they were TSF-15%) to be anywhere near realistic. (For example, in an hour-long exercise, 3 LL inbounds, no KK, and about 5 GW/SS on S14)

On the question of time left, not many people realise that with the B modules included, we have only 9 days' training left between now and going live!

I wonder how many airlines would be happy putting new FOs on the line with not enough time on the Sim even to know where all the switches are, let alone how operate the aircraft (alone if necessary) in all conditions. Let's hope TAG's review will show the folly of trying to push this through with such unseemly haste. :rolleyes:

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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

"if any of the AirLine Group read this".

Bexil, there is no "if"- they do, we were told as much @ our open meeting.

If this is as bad as it sounds will someone please leak one of these reports and/or some key facts an agency that will make a difference.The media would be my last choice, but if the in house system won't work what other options do you have?Doing nothing is not an option.

The thing I want to know is.......

WHAT THE HELL ARE SRG DOING ????????????

Or is it another of their "rubber stamp" jobs ?

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Oh Shoot,
I'm on chuffin' NIGHTS. :mad:
we aim to plase, it keeps the cleaners happy

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chiglet

[This message has been edited by chiglet (edited 24 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by chiglet (edited 24 June 2001).]

Why dont the engineers come into the room for a bit of famil and realise their plans to shut down are always bad. How many times on a Wednesday night has it got to the start of the DVR rush and the computer is turned off. ITS NOT SAFE, actually it gets bloody ridiculous and how more overloads/MOR's arent filed I'll never know. Why can they not wait for just 30-45 mins for it to calm down a little, thats all it would take. Fingers crossed for Fri 10th Aug that they will eventually listen and learn, if not, chances of an early night for some????

the one problem with delaying Nerc further would be the impossible effect it would have at LATCC ,the effects are beginning to bite now and staff levels are dire ...if we carried on for another 6 months post O date we would have to endure another summer which is something i view with horror.

I just thought I'd bring this topic to the fore again.

Anyone else refused to sign on the dotted line ??? Just remember folks, when D day comes...........it'll be YOU taking the flak.

And no, I'm not press or anything........just peeking in from "next door".

Thank Fark I'm off.
It would bwe nice if they also asked the neighbours; as estimates will have to be passed and received, manual insertion of FPD made etc..
Of course that would be too much trouble so I expect we'll just get the usual fax.
EF 100%

BTW would Mr. Cheese and Ham be the same one I knew at the College in 1969?

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Lon More,just an ATCO

5miles - if HCS shutdown is not safe then why is flow not being applied to reduce the DVR rush.The Engineers don't do it for fun, SOMEONE in ATC management is authorising this shutdown - WHY ?

Juicy........may I refer you to the title of this thread http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif :)