Spotter...and any one else who is interested..

I attended a demo of the Swiss EFPS system that NATS is considering.(please dont think that makes me an expert!) I have to say having seen and had a "play" with it that I was surprised at the ease of use. It appears to be well thought out and is radically different from other such proposals i have seen over the last 20 years.

For example, instead of "writing" in a departure or landing time, the Electronic Strip has a small "clickable" box which you just click (mouse based system) and it automatically inputs the system time...I reckon its quicker than a pen.

Generating random flight plans is a bit more complicated but the software contains templates of common flights and several clicks bring up the required Electronic Strip.

The system also reduces coordination in that you (again!) click on strip at the appropriate point and it for example, says to the relevant sector "Hello I am coming to you!" (if you get my meaning!) Similarly, requests for Opposite runway directions can be built in and be done with a click or 2, with the response a clicked (getting tired of typing that word) Yes or No.

Headings and levels are also quick with the ubiquitous click on say, heading, which produces a pop-up menu with a list of headings and you then click on the apropriate one, ditto for levels.

The Swiss ATCO doing the demo said that when it went live at Zurich, they were prepared with standby printers etc...but they have never been used (I think its 7 years or more the system has been running now)

The future is just a "quick click" away....

Spotter,
Most of the stip markings you would use end up on the caft label eg,
R Rwy in sight
V Visual
Max Max speed
etc,
The Oz TAAATS system is pretty labour intensive and the keyboard and operating system is quite different to your PC. In the tower we still use paper strips but we have to feed the TAAATS beast for TCU & En-route.We got rid of our assistants when it came in.
Is it better than the old system? Not many people would be upset if it disappeared. :rolleyes:

Having read the above posts, can I just say that this seems to be lightyears ahead of the Nerc UK system that we are all 'familiarising ' ourselves with at the moment. But I guess ours was designed in the 1980's.
There is apparently a "son of Nerc" kept in a locked cupboard and not allowed out until it's dark!! His claim to fame is that he does not need paper strips.

Spotter
We use roller ball to "designate" SSR tracks or targets if you will, and then a custom keyboard with full QWERTY keys and number pad and about a dozen and a half specific function keys such as "modify" "hand" "accept" and so forth. Once you've designated the aircraft you're interested in you whack the appropriate function key, change the data in the SSR label using the keyboard, e.g. cleared level and hit "enter". The label then reflects your voice instruction to the aircraft and others can see what you're doing which cuts down inter sector coordination.
All the above is radar control = there is a planner who runs a bit of a paper war with printed strips, but he too spends most of his time eyeballing a radar display - the strips are mainly for disaster recovery if we suffer the "black hole syndrome" - a blank set of screens. With the strips we hope to be able to remember who was out there!
We may have been at X purposes in the electronic strip matter - we work 90% from the SSR label on a radar screen - I personally use a jotter pad to remember headings and speeds assigned but a lot of my coleagues simply give a "turn left 5 degrees" type of vector and don't bother with specific headings.
This is getting mighty long but on our Oceanic Control System we do use true electronic strips and a mouse/windows system. The strips are really only aide memoirs - show nav equip, positions and ATA/ETAs coordination carried out, levels and speed. All are updated by the computer automatically in response to HF and/or datalink positon reports, and clearances/coordination composed in a separate window. As you perform tasks the computer changes the strips to reflect what you've been doing.
If you've got this far you're doing well and have a high boredom threshold !! :rolleyes:
I guess our strip marking is pretty relaxed compared to the examples you gave.
Cheers

I find it interesting to see that in the US they dumped the electronic coordination because it increased workload and did not give the expected capacity increase and replaced the "support controller's" screen with a large paper flight strip board in order for that controller to spot conflicts and perform the coordination function now carried out by our CSC's. Please note everybody that the PFS display is in front of the non radar controller, not like NERC. The US are now looking at conflict probing tools in order to rid themselves of PFS. At NERC there is no medium term conflict detection to assist planners. There should be, according to the original specification, but it was quietly dropped when the boffins said "too difficult".

There are a number of people on this thread who are claiming that what we have must be what we want because it was designed by ATCO's. The problem is that there was an awful lot of "you can't change that without a safety arguement" because the project was driven by accountants. I know that there has now been a huge overspend, but believe me, when 1996 was the anticipated opening date, anything which cost anything was banned by the bean counters.

The other problem is that the original team of ATCO's who got together to define MMI and procedures have now returned to operational duties, where they have had little influence over the direction of the project.

Z :confused:

Zip;

If any of you want to come over to see what our stuff looks like, just hop a jump seat and I'll show you around...

regards

Thanks Scott,

Are you coming to the UK on your vacation?

Bex & I (and others) would love to buy you a pint!! :) :) :) :) :)


Z

[ 27 August 2001: Message edited by: ZIP250 ]

The stripless systems are wonderful for discussion - I've been involved since 1983 so I have a lot of scars! I would suggest that you have a look at www.eurocontrol.int/hmi. It has some good ideas and gives a reasonable feel for the subject. There will be another web site in a couple of months at www.ATC-HMI.com where you will see some alternative ideas. Keep the discussion going - it is probably the most important for the controller in the field. Stripless does work if properly designed.

Douglas;

Which side of the partition were you on at the ATCA convention <G>...? The big display with stripless on the forefront and then digistrips hidden behind the partition. <G>

ZIP;

We will be spending a little time in the London area, but not a whole lot. We are doing one BIG trip this time <G>. Andy Amor in enroute and Mike Turner in the TMA have our schedule...

I do however want to come back sometime later this year or early next year to see NERC working <G>... Depends on being able to get time off from work to go, as well as Andy having a spare couch <G>.

regards

Hi Scott

I was the one demonstrating the proposed Tower Head Up Display which answers my two basic operational requirements - 1 readable in bright sunlight - 2 does not affect field of vision. Maybe I should put this on the site as an additional forum subject. I will be demonstrating the latest model at ATC Maastricht next year on my own stand as I retire to take over a friend's consultancy company. I'll probably see you in Washington DC at the ATCA show in November.
The web site I mentioned on the previous message will also include the HUD for controllers to comment upon.

The stuff we design is "designed by controllers for controllers" with assistance from other necessary expertise.
Doug

To Ahh-40612

The previous design to NERC was EDDUS, the Electronic Data Display Update Sub-system. This was cancelled in 1986. It spawned the Eurocontrol ODID group which developed into what you see on the Eurocontrol HMI web. The real son of EDDUS is happily resident in Malta. Coordination is either automatic or single click. NERC design was meant to be a completely fresh look.

Yours ex E watch

Urrrggghhh ... looks like the writings on the wall for us assistants. Any ideas on what a poor ATSA who loves his job and wants to stay in air traffic should do? :confused:

BTW - Are stripless environments all used in parts of the world where there is a lower volume of traffic being worked for a longer period of time IE. NZ & the pacific? Or are there any in fast moving busy TMA environments like London and would they work there??

Well, the Thales Eurocat2000 stripless enviroment (strips are an option)is used in Australia. While not super busy Sydney has a sustained movement rate of 80 per hour, hour on hour. This rate is artificially capped capped and simulations have shown that about 110 per hour is capable. There is an associated secondary airport 12nm and a military at 25 nm which are all handled by the TCU. The electronic strip display is not seen as a contributing problem. There are no strips in the TCU's or Enroute but they are used in the tower. On the introduction of the system 95% of the Flight Data Officers were made redundant.

LoLevel

It would appear that your system design and operational procedures need tidying up a bit. Why are you getting pop ups? Why, if you get pop ups, is there not a specific frequency for these pop ups to file on? Why are we discussing this after the operational implementation? This should have been covered during the early stages at "safety case" level prior to defining the operational requirements. Did your system have operational requirements or did you buy "off the shelf"?
Everything should start with an examination of the current system weaknesses and strengths since if you don't do this you have no future measure of comparison to ensure that you avoid such designed in problems. This is all basic stuff - or should be.

What LoLevel said is technically correct, however the Flight Plan creation that is mentioned is generally done at the flight planning stage. Pop Ups here in Sydney are handled by a planner position, with one planner serving between 5 & 6 "Executive" positions. The idea of creating flight plans while say working an approach position would be irresponsible not only from a system but a personal level. I assume LoLevel is a centre controller and could enlighten us to the enroute scenario which is certainly more of a pain with regard to "filed in flight".
The planner position would be closer to the assistant position in that it has some coordination responsibility. It is always manned by a licensed controller who is co rated on the associated executive position.

Ummm

Trickey, this automatically finishing/canceling a live flight plan, sounds like a variable system parameter needing a bit of tuning up. I would really need to almost talk it through to be able to identify the problem, but knowing the system that you have, it really should not cancel flight plans randomly or early. No I'm not a number cruncher - I hold an old ATC Licence from Aus - V119. However I've been involved with an upgrade of your system recently and although the data updating process is a bit painful, it worked.

Just another thought. Had a chat with some people re the pop up and cancelled plans. When a flight plan is filed, the activation pre your boundary may be according to the times quoted on the original plan. If the aircraft is late, it may be outside the parameter where the system expects the track to be activated. Therefore it may automatically cancel the plan. You need to take note of a couple of these plans that do not appear, get the original with the times at your boundary and see if a pattern emerges. Re the real pop ups, I agree, you cannot mess about with other peoples safety, however maybe a bit of pilot education would be useful, preferably over a beer at a local controller/pilot forum. Even if it only reduces the problem, it may be worth it.
Sorry not to be more precise about your disappearing plans, but at a distance it is difficult to accurately identify the possible alternative answers.
To others on the electronic strip forum, this shows how wonderfully flexible the old paper strips were, BUT, entering data on an electronic strip/data line does give information to all interested parties, after all, that written on a paper strip is known only to the writer at that moment. We are probably not 100% there yet, but with fora like these, it certainly helps to identify the problems.