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-   -   UK ATCO Redundancies (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/634927-uk-atco-redundancies.html)

Amexgull 20th Aug 2020 13:38

UK ATCO Redundancies
 
So as the furlough scheme starts to wind down how big is the problem for UK ATCOs? There are rumours flying about EGTE, EGGP, EGSH and others making a significant number of ATCOs redundant. It would appear that the market will go from having a dearth of controllers to a glut. Is anyone recruiting?

escaped.atco 21st Aug 2020 18:08

I've heard the rumours about EGTE and EGSH, didn't realise EGGP was doing the same. Does anyone know of numbers and what percentage this is of total staff? Still haven't heard if these are VR or CR and the actual reasons for staff reduction. It will be interesting to see as I don't think any of those units would be carrying surplus staff, the smaller units rarely do.

Strange how quickly the market can turn, only a short time from it being a definite controllers market! My guess is now ATCOs will stay at their present units for some time, any movement will probably be caused by retirements causing vacancies. The question is will airports simply absorb the tasks and carry on with less people to save cash?

250 kts 22nd Aug 2020 08:42


Originally Posted by escaped.atco (Post 10867040)
I've heard the rumours about EGTE and EGSH, didn't realise EGGP was doing the same. Does anyone know of numbers and what percentage this is of total staff? Still haven't heard if these are VR or CR and the actual reasons for staff reduction. It will be interesting to see as I don't think any of those units would be carrying surplus staff, the smaller units rarely do.

Strange how quickly the market can turn, only a short time from it being a definite controllers market! My guess is now ATCOs will stay at their present units for some time, any movement will probably be caused by retirements causing vacancies. The question is will airports simply absorb the tasks and carry on with less people to save cash?

And those rumours are?....

2 sheds 22nd Aug 2020 09:07

This must really be raising the morale at those units!

2 s

Red Four 22nd Aug 2020 09:31

I would suspect that any change in numbers will initially be through encouragement of retirement plans and non-replacement of leavers (or scrapping of plans to make up existing shortage on required numbers) for a year or so.

mike current 22nd Aug 2020 12:56

They're not rumours. There are consultations in place at many units, and reduced working hours at many more.

It's a long quiet winter ahead for aviation. People are still walking 2 metres off the pavement, never mind getting on a flight. With this sort of collective phobia going on, air travel has no chance of recovery.

Amexgull 22nd Aug 2020 13:19

Just seen an advert for an ATCO at Cranfield. I've heard it is not VR and it is not limited to those at the end of their careers, very much the opposite. EGGP appear to have got rid of a couple of the more senior guys and those ATCOs who only held a single ADI rating. With the blanket quarantine policy restricting recovery in the aviation sector I agree it will be a quiet winter...

Fly Through 23rd Aug 2020 23:34

HIAL still recruiting:

https://hialcareers.co.uk/

Spambhoy 24th Aug 2020 18:00


Originally Posted by Fly Through (Post 10868773)
HIAL still recruiting:

https://hialcareers.co.uk/

Look at the small print for the “blip driver” job description. They are already detailing the changes to terms and conditions and pay scales.

Packer27L 25th Aug 2020 10:32


Originally Posted by Spambhoy (Post 10869424)
Look at the small print for the “blip driver” job description. They are already detailing the changes to terms and conditions and pay scales.

and the Sumburgh deputy SATCO has a provisio about moving to Inverness...may not be a good move if you like looking out of real windows!

250 kts 26th Aug 2020 12:35


Originally Posted by Amexgull (Post 10867629)
Just seen an advert for an ATCO at Cranfield. I've heard it is not VR and it is not limited to those at the end of their careers, very much the opposite. EGGP appear to have got rid of a couple of the more senior guys and those ATCOs who only held a single ADI rating. With the blanket quarantine policy restricting recovery in the aviation sector I agree it will be a quiet winter...

Hopefully "got rid" is that they agreed to take VR. I understand things at Edinburgh got a bit tense when a couple of older ATCOs, and we're talking late 60s declined to take a deal to go. It's finished up with all taking a reduction in hours and salary. Quite why any one would still want to be doing the job, no matter how pleasing it is, at that age is beyond me. Life really is too short!

escaped.atco 26th Aug 2020 22:19


Originally Posted by 250 kts (Post 10871020)
Hopefully "got rid" is that they agreed to take VR. I understand things at Edinburgh got a bit tense when a couple of older ATCOs, and we're talking late 60s declined to take a deal to go. It's finished up with all taking a reduction in hours and salary. Quite why any one would still want to be doing the job, no matter how pleasing it is, at that age is beyond me. Life really is too short!

Agree with the translation of "got rid", you would hope that someone within a year or so of retirement would grab a chance to take the ultimate early go and enjoy life. Hadn't heard that about EGPH, didn't even realise they had ATCOs in their late 60s! Why would any sane person not take a package to go at that age? That will make for a very uncomfortable working environment, don't suppose any of their "colleagues" will be going out of their way to do them any favours. Most ATCOs I know are planning how quickly they can retire while they still have the health to enjoy retirement. Is this maybe a case of fiscally aware Scots?:E

The Fat Controller 27th Aug 2020 06:47

Maybe the older ATCOs at Edinburgh are those that moved from NATS to the new provider and longingly remember the bucket load of cash for NATS VR and their current employer is offering less.
Just speculation on my part.
With no prospect of putting their retirement travel plans in action, staying at work with low traffic must be quite appealing.

250 kts 27th Aug 2020 07:32


Originally Posted by The Fat Controller (Post 10871503)
Maybe the older ATCOs at Edinburgh are those that moved from NATS to the new provider and longingly remember the bucket load of cash for NATS VR and their current employer is offering less.
Just speculation on my part.
With no prospect of putting their retirement travel plans in action, staying at work with low traffic must be quite appealing.

I understand they are both NATS-both with many years' service. So assume both taking pension already as well as salary. Looks like they'll need extra pockets in their shrouds!

escaped.atco 27th Aug 2020 09:21

Why is EGPH overstaffed? Are they the same staff that tuped across from NATS and no-one has left? Or did ANS recruit in the belief that a lot of original staff would leave? Don't recall seeing any recruitment taking place there over the last few years but may have missed it. No matter the cause, in my opinion its still better for everyone to take some pain to secure jobs rather than several getting CR, there are rarely any winners in a CR environment.

250 kts 27th Aug 2020 11:33


Originally Posted by mike current (Post 10871587)
Edinburgh would still be heavily overstaffed even if a couple of over 60s retired tomorrow.
ATC is a small world and there's no need to point the finger at individuals who are easily identifiable on a public forum. The employers' mismanagement of staffing levels is probably more of a factor in this, although it's easier to blame Dick and Harry for not retiring...

Ok point taken and my post changed to take into account your concerns. However I'm not too sure many of us would be happy to see some people at the start of their careers potentially be CR'd at the expense of those with limited years of service left remaining.

terrain safe 27th Aug 2020 18:55


Originally Posted by 250 kts (Post 10871716)
Ok point taken and my post changed to take into account your concerns. However I'm not too sure many of us would be happy to see some people at the start of their careers potentially be CR'd at the expense of those with limited years of service left remaining.

Actually I think it's a decision for each individual to make as they see fit. To 'blame' someone for not retiring, when in your opinion they should, is wrong as you do not know all the circumstances of their lives. Personally, if I could go I would, not because it helps another member of staff, but because I want to and that is all that matters in this case.

Spambhoy 27th Aug 2020 19:31


Originally Posted by The Fat Controller (Post 10871503)
Maybe the older ATCOs at Edinburgh are those that moved from NATS to the new provider and longingly remember the bucket load of cash for NATS VR and their current employer is offering less.
Just speculation on my part.
With no prospect of putting their retirement travel plans in action, staying at work with low traffic must be quite appealing.

Your probably right. The template was cast at Birmingham. All NATS staff were forewarned that the T&C’s with the new provider would bear no resemblance to the ones they were accustomed to. Those that could go left, the others took up several offers of relocation and the rest were effectively stuck where they where.I’ve heard similar for Gatwick and Edinburgh.

chevvron 28th Aug 2020 06:37


Originally Posted by LookingForAJob (Post 10871867)
Everyone is different. I'm in a position where I guess, technically, I'm retired - I no longer work full-time but I do a bit of work part-time because otherwise I'm bored and my brain starts to vegetate. Some think I'm a bit sad, but for the moment it suits me. Are my actions harming a young whipper-snapper's career or prospects? I don't think so, but from my point of view in the last few months there are a whole bunch of people entering my part of the business and offering services at fire-sale fees and maybe they think I am.

When I officially retired from NATS at age 60, I got so bored that within 2 weeks I got myself a part time job as a FISO so I don't think you're 'sad'; we all need to keep our brains working.

Nimmer 28th Aug 2020 12:14

Personally I think it is a bit sad that people don’t have a”life” away from work, and thus get bored in “retirement”

I actually struggle to squeeze work in, oh well only 29 pay slips to go.


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