OOps!! :O

Thanks Mickeydrip. Obviously no sabotage intended. Sound advice from you too.

As always, my best to Spot, his family and to his fantastic support network.

Regards,
Brian (occasionally shoots from the hip) Dixon :)

Lockout
 

Just a comms check - haven't been able to log onto prune all day, and neither has Dick. Obviously a hiccup at the server.
Thanks to Brian for keeping the show on the road
More tomorrow::confused: :confused:

Spot, just to let you know there are a lot of people in ATC RAF Lincolnshire who are right behind you and hoping for the outcome we all know is right.

Even though it must be hellishly difficult, keep your chin up and don't let the bastards grind you down.

After this is all over, hopefully all the details can become public and the people who should have stood up to be counted will get what they deserve.

Keep fighting, all the best.

We in Mil ATC in Hampshire echo the sentiments of so many others on this forum and you have both our sympathy and support.

Once this show trial has reached a successful conclusion, which it surely must, I hope that we can maintain the momentum by supporting our other colleague who has been treated equally shamefully following the Pristina incident.

There is a palpable sense of outrage at these injustices which should not surprise those who have perpetrated them.

Keep going Spot (and Brian) - right is on your side.

Day 8 - Wednesday 5th Feb 03
 

Day 8 - Wednesday 5th Feb 03

Summary from Dick @ Helensburgh:

The first session of the morning was spent with the Prosecutor finishing off his examination of his ATC witness Gp. Capt. Jim Stenson. Thereafter, Spot’s QC started his cross-examination, which was completed just before adjourning for the day.

Spot’s QC established the following:

1. Under RIS, the pilot is wholly responsible for terrain clearance
2. Spot broke no regulation in descending the aircraft to 4000 ft
3. Spot is both an experienced and professional ATCO who attempted to assist the aircraft to achieve their task through his own honest endeavour. The QC then used a number of examples from the tape transcript to support this.
4. The RAF authorities did not interview civilian witnesses, for whatever reason.

It was an exciting day with plenty of points of order, and one question of law necessitating the Board leaving the room while the Judge Advocate considered both sides of the argument. He subsequently ruled in favour of the Defence.

More tomorrow.

MD, TVM. It would appear that 'Big Bad Jim' has been a useful defence witness!

I am sure that I am not alone in finally pulling my finger out and finally joining GATCO after seeing the assistance being provided to Spot. Assuming a mini influx of new membership, and even a modest increase in the subscription, could a higher level of financial support be provided to him, or am I speaking out of turn? If there is a way of individual donations being forwarded to the cause, could someone post appropriate details. I don't believe that I have ever met Spot, but having followed this thread since it began, I can't help wondering how I would cope in his position, be it mentally and financially.
I hope the light is at the end of the tunnel, so keep your chin up Spot.

Nick B.

As a current military SATCO I have been following this thread carefully and recently I have been printing out some of the very informative reports that have been posted from those able to attend the CM in order to pass on the information to my controllers. Needless to say it is heartening to all that the Defence appear to be making some very valid points that will hopefully bring this to a successful end in the near future.

On the down side, I must also say that as a branch we are our own worst enemies sometimes. Why send the ATCEB to Leuchars at such a sensitive time for the personnel still there. Is it any surprise that the minds of controllers lay elsewhere last week and this week. Come on people, lets start giving ourselves a chance!

I'm in a similar position to Vick (only not quite so many different ac types) and log on during the day to let my controllers know how things are going.
Thanks to all for your daily reports, it really does make a difference.

There are a lot of people down here, both flyers and controllers, willing you to win Spot.

Is there any way we could set up a fund for Spot's legal expenses ? Surely ever little helps and there must be a lot of people on this forum.
Would anyone else like to donate ?

Good luck Spot.

Spot's expenses
 

It's very encouraging to see that SATCO's are briefing their staff on the progress of this Court Martial; it's obviously of immense importance to every controller,whether civil or military. As has been stated earlier in this forum, we all make mistakes; those that won't admit it are only fooling themselves. Like the majority of other controllers, I've stretched the rules on occasion, just to get the job done and help the aircrew achieve their goal. It's always been with the thought at the back of my mind that I would be supported should things go wrong. Spot's been let down very badly by his managers and now finds himself alone in the dock; it's a damned disgrace and heads, other than Spot's, should roll.

On a lighter note, and picking up recent comments, it won't surprise any of you to hear that plans are being seriously considered to bridge the gap between the Guilds' 50K and the start of legal aid @ 130K. It would not be wise of me to speculate but watch these pages for more information on this important subject. GATCO and its' managers deserve the greatest of praise; they were quick to recognise the problem of finance and promised funds immediately. They were also quick to recognise the impact that this trial could have on service provision by civil and military controllers; at a stroke, RIS and RAS could have become history.

On behalf of Spot and Sue, thank you all for your very vocal support; the number of hits on this subject has soared. Spot, Sue and all the supporters at Hellensburgh read your comments over breakfast every morning (Spot is actually managing to keep it in his stomach these days,so that's a big improvement).

More later.

Spot and Sue: Keeping up to date via the web and just letting you know that even broken down old golf pro's are thinking of you. Hang in there. Just work on your follow through Spot. Cheers

I think all ATCO's would be proud to donate something to a funds for Spots expenses. This whole case is a disgrace and should never have been brought to trial. The RAF should support its staff and not persecute them in this way. It is obvious to everyone who reads this forum that Spot did absolutely nothing wrong and is only being made a scapegoat because the aircrew involved were not British.

This case and the Pristina one have damaged the image of the RAF and disallusioned alot of people so I think it is time to say adios(sp) to it all.

Good luck Spot, surely you can only get the right outcome from this farce. All the best.

I am a professional pilot. I am not ex military nor do I know Spot. However, I do want to see justice done. Show trials have no place in a democratic society.I shall therefore be happy to contribute to his defence costs when information how to do so is posted here. After all, UK taxpayers are already paying the prosecution costs whether they want to or not.Good luck and hang in there!

F 15 COURT MARTIAL
 

You have the support of many ex-colleagues in Brussels who have been following this CM for several months now. It is indeed disgracefull that Spot was even charged - he has done nothing wrong. The RAF senior brass should have stood up for him.
I pledge at least £100 towards your legal costs Spot (we worked together in the 70s).

I'll gladly pledge £100 too! Least I could do.

NOW IS NOT THE TIME.................
 

...............to talk about money. It is encouraging to know that people will be willing to put their hands into their pockets but there is a plan which cannot be mentioned at this stage. I have spoken to the support team (Dick et al) and the message is - only discuss the court martial now. Later, when and if necessary, information will come out about finances.

Brian Young

Thanks Brian Young,

Once things are settled and if things need to be done regarding money from individual readers, then PPRuNe will help facilitate whatever is required. Just let me know.

Good luck Spot, hopefully the farce will soon be over and you can get back to a normal life again.

Regards

PR

Thu 6th Feb 03
 

Just a few short comments before starting today’s summary.

I would like to request that this forum isn’t the place for castigation of a “personal” nature of anyone participating in this CM. All the support group recognised that Gp Capt Jim Stenson had a ‘job’ to do for the Prosecution as an expert witness for the Crown. This can’t have been pleasant for him and he would almost certainly not have been there of his own volition. He acted in an entirely honourable fashion throughout and the ‘support group’ has no ‘issue’ with him.

Secondly, could we please leave the finance issue aside for the moment. Rest assured, we have a contingency plan.

Summary for Thursday 6th Feb 03:

The first part of the morning was taken up with Gp Capt Jim Stenson, for the Crown, being questioned by his Prosecutor. Spot’s QC, Mike Jones, then did his 2nd cross-examination. From this it was established that when flying IMC, IFR’s were mandatory. Much to his surprise, Gp Capt Stenson was asked to give a graphic demonstration of the Quadrantal Rule for the benefit of the members of the CM. Jim Stenson was then released as a witness.

The Crown’s last witness, Major Scott Chamberlain USAF, then took the stand. At the time of the accident he was Chief of Staneval, HQ USAFE. Major Chamberlain is a very experienced F15 pilot (2,200 hrs), instructor pilot and a qualified USAF aircraft accident investigator. Some of the issues examined will probably be better dealt with after the Defence has cross examined.

In his experience as a qualified Aircraft Accident Investigator he gave a thorough and detailed briefing of his opinion as to how the aircraft came to impact the ground. In brief summary, some of his comments were:

1. This was a low angle, high speed (300 kts +) impact with snow covered terrain.
2. The aircraft crashed in close formation with no evidence of collision prior to impact.
3. The aircraft were wings-level and instruments recovered from the scene suggested that they were throttled back (72%) at 13 degrees angle of attack at the time of impact with the surface at 4058 ft amsl.

The court adjourned, with the Prosecutor still to finish with his witness and the Defence yet to cross examine. It should be noted that all the above may be of great interest but has really nothing to do with the material charges.

More tomorrow

I am another SATCO reading these treads and passing on the salient points to the front line. Thank you DD, MD et al for the factual stuff.

It has emerged that Spot is where he is because, like the rest of us, he was trying to do his best for his aircew - I have met no one in 25 years in this specialization who would not do the same.

Spot, ATC is a big boy's game which takes a special kind of bravery to play. Everyone down here is thinking of you and supporting your corner. Please draw comfort from the times in the past, that you will never know about, when a bit of advice here, or a bar room chat there, has been the difference in countless other potential incidents with all your students and UTs over the years. We can't imagine your feelings, but rest assured you and Sue are in our prayers