PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   ATC Issues (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues-18/)
-   -   Manchester Airport patterns (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/610754-manchester-airport-patterns.html)

funfly 4th Jul 2018 14:52

Manchester Airport patterns
It's a few years since I landed at Manchester Airport but living virtually at the Winsford Flash VRP I am very aware of overhead traffic but something puzzles me.

Some aircraft landing at Manchester turn and start to descend virtually overhead my house just after the Winsford Flash VRP but some turn a lot farther North - well towards Jodrell Bank.

Is there any reason they join the extended runway line at different places? My assumption would have been one specific turning point onto the heading.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but lying in the sun ones brain does raise obtuse questions.


Crazy Voyager 4th Jul 2018 19:36

Council van has answered it pretty well.

The exact point where the approach is intercepted mainly depends on traffic, if there is not traffic aircraft are vectored for as short of an approach as is possible while still complying with things like terrain and providing enough track miles for a stable approach. Normally if there is no traffic in the way aircraft tend to intercept the ILS between 7 and 10NM.

If there is traffic ahead final approach often starts to move out, this is simply because it is one of the ways spacing is adjusted. Aircraft are roughly spaced the correct distance on the downwind but the further out the less precise the spacing is. As the pattern then gets closer to final it is adjusted. If there are more aircraft the approach intercept tends to move out to around 10-12NM, if it's really busy or a late increase in spacing is needed it can increase even more, but rarely outside of 15NM unless doing straight in approaches (which can see aircraft join final approach a long way out, on 05 somertimes almost 40NM out).

To throw a spanner in the works some aircraft ask for shorter approaches or opt for visual approaches, on 05 a visual approach can establish at any range (no noise restrictions on 05 ops for visuals). Also sometimes airlines fly non-precision approaches for training, ryanair quite often fly loc/dme approaches for crew training, they then tend to request 12NM finals to allow themselves time to set up before descending on the procedure.

Also to add a bit more, you talk about what sounds like the positioning of the downwind on 05. This is also depending on traffic. At busier times the downwind is kept further out from final to allow more room for final director to adjust the spacing. At quieter times the downwind leg is put tigher to final approach to reduce track miles and provide a more expeditious approach. Also some times traffic from the south routes via the hold fix at DAYNE (over towards Maccelsfield) and sometimes they can join on a heading from further south (at night even going down the "wrong" side of the airway at times and go over Birmingham) which again may make a difference to what passes over your house in what direction.

As Council Van says, have a look at flightradar 24 and look at some of the Manchester inbounds, you will see at busy times (say 8-9 in the morning for example, or around lunch time 1pm) they will route in a more square pattern and often route via the holding fixes. At quieter times the routes become more fluid with aircraft flying much more direct paths. Also compare some of the inbounds that come up over Wales when 05 is in use, some will fly all the way to the hold fix at MIRSI which is north of liverpool, some will join straight to final approach and most will do a bit of a dog leg to the north and then back again, but not go all the way to the hold.

funfly 4th Jul 2018 22:28

Crazy Voyager, Thanks for that, seems to answer my question fully.
I assume that you will be one of the people that kept me forever circling over 'The Flats' when I was doing my instrument training from Manchester Airport all those years ago.
Again my appreciation.

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:28.

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.