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-   -   Hectopascals (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/599374-hectopascals.html)

18greens 11th Sep 2017 10:28

Hectopascals
 
I've just noticed the word hectopascals being added to radio transmissions recently. Previously the controller would just say QHN 1011 and we all knew what he/she meant. This was all much tidier and led to shorter radio transmissions.

Is there a reason for this change, can we go back to the old way of not defining the units for pressure? Or using the word millibar which was less lumpy to say.

ShyTorque 11th Sep 2017 10:43

We've been having to read this back for quite some years now. We're all Europeans now.

(Except them 'Murricans, one of whom apparently didn't know that you're not supposed to set part of a European/metric setting on the inches subscale and subsequently frightened himself).

Some ATCOs are now totally unneccessary about it. How we managed in years gone by, no-one knows!

Chesty Morgan 11th Sep 2017 11:10

You are only required to add hectopascal if the pressure is below 1000.

360BakTrak 11th Sep 2017 11:10

Usually just used when pressure is below 1000.

Dan Dare 11th Sep 2017 11:18

"hectopascals" is a non-optional suffix for less than 1000 hPa, but I tend to add it for higher pressures if the accent or airline would suggest regular North American operations. Probably a bad habit.

Could we raise a petition to bring back millibars?

Doody2007 11th Sep 2017 11:26

It is a requirement to pass it when the pressure is below 1000 hpa. It is also a mandatory readback.

If it's any consolation, I can speak for the majority of atcos at my unit, we hate having to say it too. And more so when we insist it's readback. However, that's the rules. CAP413 refers.

18greens 11th Sep 2017 11:34

So the Hpa thing is to stop the umbrellastands reading QNH 992 as 29.92 inches? I think i'm beginning to understand..Thanks!

And the rule about it only being read out when its less than 1000 would account for why I seldom hear it, only flying on beautiful high pressure days...

Yes lets bring back Mb.

ShyTorque 11th Sep 2017 11:46


Originally Posted by 18greens (Post 9888417)
So the Hpa thing is to stop the umbrellastands reading QNH 992 as 29.92 inches? I think i'm beginning to understand..Thanks!

And the rule about it only being read out when its less than 1000 would account for why I seldom hear it, only flying on beautiful high pressure days...

Yes lets bring back Mb.

Correct! :ok:

chevvron 11th Sep 2017 11:53


Originally Posted by 18greens (Post 9888417)
Yes lets bring back Mb.

I, and I think most other controllers/FISOs/pilots would agree, but unfortunately some ******** at ICAO thinks otherwise.

Gonzo 11th Sep 2017 14:02

Why on earth would we (re-)introduce new phraseology that would only be used in the UK? Are we looking to become even more non-standard than we are already?

I'm sure Russian ATC would love to have remained using metres as the unit of level, and US ATC to have remained using 'position and hold' rather than 'line up and wait'.

Is it really that bad? We should be looking at more standardisation across the world, not less.

kcockayne 11th Sep 2017 17:07


Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 9888552)
Why on earth would we (re-)introduce new phraseology that would only be used in the UK? Are we looking to become even more non-standard than we are already?

I'm sure Russian ATC would love to have remained using metres as the unit of level, and US ATC to have remained using 'position and hold' rather than 'line up and wait'.

Is it really that bad? We should be looking at more standardisation across the world, not less.

I agree on the standardisation issue, Gonzo ; but weren't we standardised on millibars before the powers that be decided to replace that with hectopascals (which are exactly the same values as MBs !)

MaxReheat 11th Sep 2017 17:27

I'd suggest that 99.9% of aircraft operatig over Europe and surrounds ARE NOT flying on the inches subscale and are using millabars/hectopastels day-in, day-out, year-in, year-out nay decade-in, decade-out. The 'confusion' thereby necessitating this needless waste of breath only exists in the minds of yet another ground-based 'safety' committee.

DaveReidUK 11th Sep 2017 18:01


Originally Posted by Dan Dare (Post 9888399)
Could we raise a petition to bring back millibars?

Could be one of the few positives to emerge from Brexit. :O

ZOOKER 11th Sep 2017 18:26

It could be much worse.

Imagine if, instead of Pascal, the early pressure research had been carried out by by Boyle, or Gay Lussac.

Bring back Millibars and OKTAs. The Wx was much better and the summers were much warmer when we used those babies.

Flash2001 11th Sep 2017 18:26

Jest as an aside..

The ISO discourages the use of hecto, centi, deci etc.

After an excellent landing etc...

LookingForAJob 11th Sep 2017 18:35


The ISO discourages the use of hecto, centi, deci etc.
Mmmmm - QNH 101300 Pascal. Yup, so much easier.

Flash2001 11th Sep 2017 18:42

How 'bout Kilo?

Gonzo 11th Sep 2017 19:56


Originally Posted by MaxReheat (Post 9888700)
I'd suggest that 99.9% of aircraft operatig over Europe and surrounds ARE NOT flying on the inches subscale and are using millabars/hectopastels day-in, day-out, year-in, year-out nay decade-in, decade-out. The 'confusion' thereby necessitating this needless waste of breath only exists in the minds of yet another ground-based 'safety' committee.

Yes, let's ignore the level busts and near-level busts caused by N. American-based crews hearing 992(mb/hpa) and entering 29.92(in) (or similar), let alone the many every U.K. controller has caught at the readback stage.

18greens 11th Sep 2017 20:52


Originally Posted by ZOOKER (Post 9888754)
It could be much worse.

Bring back Millibars and OKTAs. The Wx was much better and the summers were much warmer when we used those babies.

Ah I miss OKTAs. Better than Frank Sucks Big Ones. It will never leave me , nor any of my students. and yes the weather was better....

LEGAL TENDER 11th Sep 2017 21:29

It was introduced in 2011.
Was awkward for a couple of days and then business as usual.

Shows the adaptability to change of some in this profession ;) ;) ;)


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