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-   -   NATS Heathrow jobs (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/594263-nats-heathrow-jobs.html)

Talkdownman 5th May 2017 06:43

Regardless, not wanting to 'work at Heathrow', or not wanting to 'live in London' was no excuse. Nats staff just had to get on with it. Yes, 'one or two' of the compulsory postees managed to wriggle out of it, we know who they were. Heathrow can't be short of staff, they have recently paid off voluntary redundancies. Surely Nats wouldn't do that if they were short, now would they...

Brian 48nav 5th May 2017 07:30

chevvron
 
Malcy was North Bank on A Watch at LATCC before his holiday at Farnborough. We both turned up at Heathrow on 3rd November 1986. Is it still celebrated as an extra day off or Public Holiday?

I actually volunteered, grudgingly, for LL. The 1983 shift pay agreement and subsequent push for station/post grading by both the union and management meant that it made sense to leave Boscombe in order to improve my pension, as I was 27 when I joined CAA and it was before the days when one could transfer pension entitlement from your previous employer to the CAA scheme. Not that I had any to transfer!

Sorry for the thread drift folks, back to my rocking chair!

Gonzo 5th May 2017 10:34

Do we know if this is a 'starting from' salary, or a 'starting at' salary.... They are quite different.

chevvron 5th May 2017 10:45


Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 9761800)
Do we know if this is a 'starting from' salary, or a 'starting at' salary.... They are quite different.

Seems to me Gonz it's the usual thing; get rid of the more experienced ones who are near the top of the payscale 'cos they're too expensive and replace them with someone with little experience who starts at the bottom and is therefore cheaper to employ.
It's as if the ones holding the purse strings don't realise it could take a newbie 12 months or more to gain a C of C.

Cleared For A Coffee 5th May 2017 14:11


Originally Posted by Cripes (Post 9761761)
Hmmmm, 56k in SE England / London. I thought career progression meant a pay RISE!

The large SE airports' motto should be 'Come and work a lot bloody harder, for less!'.

I'm being facetious but is it really too much to ask for experienced people to be paid what they are on at the moment when they move to these bigger units, rather than start below the pay scale of ATCOs? New ATCOs fair enough, but don't lump everyone into the same bracket. (I could have got this completely wrong and there is a lower bracket for ab-initios!). KK are doing it too.
If you move from one Regional to another they match your pay or increase it. I'm sure they know what they're doing and this isn't a race to the bottom of Ts&Cs all round....

Im not doubting 56k is great for any 'real world' job. But Heathrow!?

Not every regional will match your pay or increase it... I can think of one in particular

chevvron 5th May 2017 14:23


Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 9761800)
Do we know if this is a 'starting from' salary, or a 'starting at' salary.... They are quite different.

I think in general if you're joining NATS from outside, you start at the bottom of the payscale for whatever band the station is irrespective of experience.

Gonzo 5th May 2017 14:51

I think it's petty clear, the advert says 'Minimum salary FROM 56k" "Maximum salary dependent on experience"

If you have the experience you can negotiate.

Talkdownman 5th May 2017 17:26


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 9761994)
if you're joining NATS from outside, you start at the bottom of the payscale for whatever band the station is irrespective of experience.

Also applies if rejoining Nats after broken service, which is why I declined its invitation to re-join for 'London LARS' purposes.

Gonzo 5th May 2017 17:39

Hello.....is this thing on?

Bueller?

Bueller?

.....

250 kts 6th May 2017 08:05


Also applies if rejoining Nats after broken service, which is why I declined its invitation to re-join for 'London LARS' purposes
I think this has now changed. IIRC you would come back 2 spine points below where you were when you left.

The 56K is the bottom of the ATCO2 scale for someone who has just validated but it does rise pretty quickly from then onwards..

Talkdownman 6th May 2017 09:32


Originally Posted by 250 kts (Post 9762622)
I think this has now changed

Hopefully that is as a result of me telling The Chancers to 'stick it'. After over 40 years service I found Nats HR's treatment to be insulting. They even had the temerity to tell me that if I accepted their pitiful offer I may not continue part-time with my then employer. I told delusional Nats that it would be they who would be part-time as far as I was concerned! They wouldn't accept that. Their loss. They had no idea back then (2003-07) how to treat staff and ex-staff reasonably. I do hope that has improved, because it certainly wouldn't have been difficult to improve!

chevvron 6th May 2017 12:17


Originally Posted by Talkdownman (Post 9762696)
Hopefully that is as a result of me telling The Chancers to 'stick it'. After over 40 years service I found Nats HR's treatment to be insulting. They even had the temerity to tell me that if I accepted their pitiful offer I may not continue part-time with my then employer. I told delusional Nats that it would be they who would be part-time as far as I was concerned! They wouldn't accept that. Their loss. They had no idea back then (2003-07) how to treat staff and ex-staff reasonably. I do hope that has improved, because it certainly wouldn't have been difficult to improve!

A similar attitude prevailed in 2008 when I was approaching retirement. Knowing Farnborough would be at least temporarily short staffed when I left, I offered to stay on part time doing 2 weekdays per week totalling 20 hours gross ie half my previous contractual time.
This wasn't good enough for HR who insisted I do shifts and weekends totalling 20 hours gross, so I declined the offer and went.
And even after all these years, Farnborough are still apparently short of staff.

Satellite Man 8th May 2017 19:14


Originally Posted by Cripes (Post 9761761)
Hmmmm, 56k in SE England / London. I thought career progression meant a pay RISE!

The large SE airports' motto should be 'Come and work a lot bloody harder, for less!'.

I'm being facetious but is it really too much to ask for experienced people to be paid what they are on at the moment when they move to these bigger units, rather than start below the pay scale of ATCOs? New ATCOs fair enough, but don't lump everyone into the same bracket. (I could have got this completely wrong and there is a lower bracket for ab-initios!). KK are doing it too.
If you move from one Regional to another they match your pay or increase it. I'm sure they know what they're doing and this isn't a race to the bottom of Ts&Cs all round....

Im not doubting 56k is great for any 'real world' job. But Heathrow!?

Are you saying ATCOs are making only 56k net at London Heathrow when they join??? 56k per year? :eek:

Come on, you gotta be kidding! (I hope it's a joke or something)

whitelighter 8th May 2017 20:34


Originally Posted by Satellite Man (Post 9764891)
Are you saying ATCOs are making only 56k net at London Heathrow when they join??? 56k per year? :eek:

Come on, you gotta be kidding! (I hope it's a joke or something)

Until your third anniversary with the company post validation salary is more like 34-38k.
And that is gros, before tax and pension deductions. As is the 56k.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR 8th May 2017 21:41

34k? My pension is more than that and I only had just over 30 years service!

LostThePicture 9th May 2017 18:59


I would be loathe to select possible trainees especially as I would 'weed out' any graduates right at the beginning
Wow. Just wow. 68 years old and still so narrow-minded... :ugh:

LTP

Squawk 7500 9th May 2017 19:55


Originally Posted by LostThePicture (Post 9765874)
Wow. Just wow. 68 years old and still so narrow-minded... :ugh:

LTP

+1

If the company has improved in any way recently, it's that clowns like that are no longer in employment!

NudgingSteel 9th May 2017 22:30


Quote:
I would be loathe to select possible trainees especially as I would 'weed out' any graduates right at the beginning
Wow. Just wow. 68 years old and still so narrow-minded...

LTP
And another +1 for the comments on this one.

What an utter lack of respect for the number of successful and time-served ATCOs who also happened to have spent 3+ years working to get a degree. I always wanted to work in aviation - but I was canny enough to know that only around 3% make it all the way through ATCO selection to a job at the end.

With over 25 years of holding a "yellow book" (and loving it all, BTW), I might not be using my degree...but I sure as hell resent hearing that it would have been enough to have me "weeded out" :ugh::ugh::ugh:

chevvron 10th May 2017 12:31

Suffice to say that in my 34 years of experience as an ATCO, those trainees with degrees have been in my experience the most difficult and take the longest time to train.
I have no idea why. They eventually 'make the grade' but it is a long uphill struggle compared to those who entered the profession without degrees.

good egg 10th May 2017 13:35


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 9766567)
Suffice to say that in my 34 years of experience as an ATCO, those trainees with degrees have been in my experience the most difficult and take the longest time to train.
I have no idea why. They eventually 'make the grade' but it is a long uphill struggle compared to those who entered the profession without degrees.

Maybe it was your training style?


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