Wednesday Pay Talks
 

Any news?

As usual the Union are doing a great job of communicating with its members :(

Last thing I saw at work was basically.........constructive meeting, another one on the 10th.

Meanwhile where is the ballot on industrial action?

Relax
 

Enough people are working on your side to get us all a fair and well deserved settlement. I agree the feedback should be better and we told BEC that from the outset. In any case, we have a definate mandate from the troops and they owe it to the membership to keep them informed.
As to the ballot for strike action, this will only take place after the deadline of 11 July has passed. I can only speak for myself, but I don't see this going any other way than out the door. Nats may well come out with an 11th hour offer but this will depend on the strength of the membership and our ability to stand by our words with a strong vote for action ;)

If I were in managment shoes and I had very little new to offer, I would be trying to come up with a whole series of 11th hour offers to get the deadline prolonged. I would do this for as long as possible until the summer is past and then the effect of any industrial action is relatively reduced.

Just a point which needs reiterating as it might have got lost recently: NATS offered 2.2% for this year and said there was no more money in the pot. What about the 10% or whatever it is that they have been saving for months now while they have been taking the pensions contribution holiday??? Where has that money gone? Seems like poor accounting to me.

Eyeinthesky. Your first paragraph sounds like the normal 'negotiating' procedure. Also they may offer something that will please a few people, just to split the vote.

Also management will be looking if you have followed the correct procedure. If you have not, and you get a strike vote, then they could have it decared void in the high court.

Just a little point. The issue of ATCO pay and conditions is not an anual pay round issue. By making it so you are defeated from the start. Any amount agreed would have to be paid to ALL NATS staff, not just the ATCOs - think about it!

.....and when you have, detach it from the rest of the staff (which is what you would all like anyway) go on strike and I WILL enjoy driving you down like you did to me in the 70s - NO I have not forgotten!

Never will

Greedy people

Sector 8 dear..that sounds like a terribly big chip on your shoulder.Would you like to explain to me why the deal as it stands is a good deal for me?and how I am being greedy when it seems like the company is making all the savings on our backs?The pension holiday alone is saving heaven knows what!

I am sorry you sound bitter but what happened? ..go on get it off your chest As they say I'm Listening!:confused:

and sector8dear, just remember after you have ploughed us into the gutter mouthing 'b@st*rds', that any better result we manage to gain will be lining your pocket anyway. Fancy joining us to show us how it should be done???

As this is a sectional claim, I assumed that the atco basic pay will go up by whatever is negotiated and the others that voted yes by 2.2%(this year). However as uhp and the rest affects us all, whatever new is negotiated will go up across the whole of the staff that qualify for this payment. Is this correct?

Ps sector8dear did you ever apply to become an atco?

So far as I remember, PCS reserved the right to re-ballot it's members if the ATCOs negotiated an improved pay deal?

Sector 8, I may be mistaken.

I understood that the 2.2% stays on the table across the board. What we (they) are talking about now is the ATCO's sectional claim (yes/no?) which wouldn't be paid across the board.

Much of the ill feeling at the moment doesn't stem from the pay round issue anyway. I would say we are seeing the symptoms of being undervalued for a decade, manifesting themselves in a fight over pay.

Irrespective of your views over the pay issue, to say "...go on strike and I WILL enjoy driving you down like you did to me in the 70s - NO I have not forgotten!" is an indication of someone who is out of control of their emotions. If you mean it you are sick, if you don't its just rhetoric and why say it?

I think you ought to calm down a bit.

Point 4

:)

Sector 8
You may be surprised to know that (wild guess) at least 50% of current ATCOs were at school or maybe not even born in the 1970s so what exactly are you complaining about? Time to fast forward and forget it's a new century, we've even got television in every house.

Couple of points... It's not the fault of the union negotiators or management that you aren't getting more info on what's being discussed at these meetings. Procedure for such meetings is that all talks are confidential and must not be divulged until the meeting is closed. We aren't hearing anything much because they are adjourning the meetings. So both sides know they can't go out to staff with details at this point.

Also... yes they are addressing the ATCO sectional claim... but any negotiated increase in basic pay and conditions would be implemented accross the board... not that I think you'll get a increased offer on basic pay anyway!

Following on from the mid-air last week and SkyGuard reducing flow through Swiss airspace by 20%, European newspapers are reporting a shortfall of around 2000 ATCO's throughout the EU.

Flying now is becoming a little worrying, a bit like travelling on a train. I never used to question its safety, but now..........I certainly do!

It would appear that there are a whole load of circumstances leading to the accident over Germany, just like recent rail crashes, ATCO's are just at the blunt end of a lack of investment in the industry over the last decades.

Good luck with your pay quest, you are worth every penny.

Quite right. Any certified LCE, Assessor, verifier or OJTI will be entitled to a negotiated increase, whether they are ATCOs or not, resulting from the ATCOs claim.

And having accepted the baic deal they will have to negotiate another or threaten industrial action like the ATCOs have done. A difficult option. Just a bit like saying I voted Lib Dem but if the Tories win I want to change my vote !!

Now the closing date is near, can we know whats on/not on the table?

I thought the closing date was tomorrow, however I understand that management and prospect were meeting today for further discussions.
Anyone privvy to the putcome of the discussions or are we going to have to wait and wait and wait

Prospect will tell you when the negotiations are finally over.

The results will then be balloted.

Nice to see PCS accepting the original pay offer, then demanding the rewards of the ATCO's quest for fair pay!

"But my job is on the line"....SIR....

Then you should have voted NO to the pay offer, and not make yoursevles look daft! You have shown to senior management a willingness to give in! They will be back later to deal with you! You need to stand up and be counted and prove that you are a seriously needed part of NATS. Sad really that you cant see what will happen if you dont fight now!

The ATCO's are on a sectional pay quest, so no hard feelings if they get a good rise and the ATSA's dont!

After all, you (The ATSA's) voted to accept the 'poor' pay rise!

Rumour, and I stress RUMOUR has it that management are prepared to fight. The union reps can't say anything yet and it seems it is not quite cut and dried but the hot money is on a ballot for industrial action.

That being the case and after the cycle we are having at TC it seems certain we will be out by mid August.

Point 4
:(

Sorry sector 8 I must have missed your response to my post.