New ATC Procedures for arriving traffic
 

Anyone else hear the new NATS ATC arrival procedures story on BBC News at 1300 BST ? Anyone care to make their views known ?

I never heard it but look forward to....

Report that aircraft will be in bigger holds, but at the same level. It's been tried before ("err, London there's someone in the hold at our level"), but a procedure was never written. Sounds like fun!

"What makes you think it's your level?"

;-)

Bit in today's paper about it. The graphic which accompanied the article showed 5 planes gaily whizzing around the hold and at the same level, cant wait to see it in action. According to the chief neddy its the future.

God preserve us all....

Sounds as if the NATS Management Emperor might have acquired another set of clothes - does it explain how the aircraft join the hold in the appropriate position? I thought that Point Merge was supposed to cure all problems?

2 s

On the face of it, HD, you've summed it all up pretty well. I cannot believe that what I understand of this suggestion comes as ideas from "active ATCOS", or that it will ever work in practice. I thought that "tunnels in the sky" was bizarre, but this appears to be even worse. The whole thing must have been dreamt up by management, or by someone who has not been near an ops room any time in the past 50 years !

Nothing on the BBC News web site that I can see, but you can listen to the item at www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0783ltr, skip forward to time 06:49 (not sure if this works outside the UK).
It says NATS said "planes with passengers needing connecting flights would jump the queue" – how many flights into LHR and LGW don't have some connecting pax on board?

Transcript:

and this is going to work how?

What a fantastic idea. I can't believe we don't do it already. I think blue aeroplanes should get priority. Or red. Red's a nice colour. No, actually, hold on, purple ones, yes, purple for priority...

Is it possible that this 'linear holding' has been conflated by a journalist from Point Merge/tromboning, queue management and XMAN etc?

But no, it allows us to pour scorn on 'silly' management. Let's assume it's all true.

Why shouldn't we be trying to make holding at LAM a thing of the past?

CAP493............10.2.

"Horizontal separation based on ATS surveillance system information shall not be used between aircraft holding over the same holding point".

MATS Part 1 in 'doesn't take account of future concepts' shocker!:}

Gonzo..........
Holding Point. A specified location, identified by visual or other means, in the vicinity of which the position of an aircraft in flight is maintained in accordance with air traffic control clearances.

The best way to make holding at LAM a thing of the past is to reduce the number of planes using Heathrow.

You need to get out from the glass tower and get some approach and area radar experience under your belt.

The LAM, BIG, OCK, and BNN, holds give the area bods a fighting chance of dealing with non-EGLL traffic, and not whacking the planes that matter to you. Folks know where the a/c are, they're not bimbling about in the most congested/complex bit of Europe's airspace.

Imagine if I arrived as your new GM and suggested that EGLL GMC should taxi outbound a/c all over the place, instead of forming a nice orderly queue at NB2E or NB1?

I once deliberately put two in the hold at the same level. They were at opposite ends of the racetrack, speed controlled, and never any chance of colliding. This was, of course, in the simulator during one TRUCE session, I would never want to do it in real world.

I totally agree. Having that relatively small area of known holding airspace makes it a lot easier to get other aircraft past them.

<<Air traffic controllers say they want to change the way in which aircraft queue to land at Heathrow and Gatwick, to give priority to passengers with connecting flights. >>

Things really have changed since my day!

In other words the function of a queue (in any context) is to act as a buffer between supply and demand where an asset (e.g. runway) has a finite capacity and you need to get maximum utilisation from it. There's no reason why aviation should be an exception to that principle, and it isn't.

Remove the ability to queue, and utilisation of the asset will inevitably be reduced unless you come up with the kind of cute solution to smoothing demand that currently seems to be beyond the capability of the European ATC network.

I don't expect the LHR stacks to disappear within my lifetime.

Me too Dave, but I remain ever optimistic of the arrival of a technology-enabled "cute solution".

Or a couple of new runways.