Class D transits
 

Can anyone who controls Class D tell me whether they would normally prefer me to request an IFR or VFR transit clearance through their airspace (when flying in VMC)? I prefer to transit as high as possible to keep out of the way of slower traffic, e.g 5000ft through Solent and FL075 through the Channel Islands airspace. Most of the time you ask whether I would like an IFR or VFR clearance, obviously I don't want to risk the possibility of being denied entry if I choose the wrong option.

transit through CAT D - dream on !!

VFR, always VFR.... So dead easy to handle.... Cleared to cross, traffic is....

(May be a few restrictions near runways though)

IFR, always IFR...so dead easy to handle... Cleared to cross on heading x at altitude y...

Then I have complete control...

Well that's 1-1, do we have a decider?

It depends.

Busy airport low level with no gaps in the traffic - VFR is easy enough with no delay, but IFR gives the ATCO more control (and responsibility), so VFR is still probably easier.

Control zone transits - VFR every time (if weather permits)

I don't think I've refused a VFR transit of my Class C zone in the 13 years I've worked here when the weather has been appropriate. I have radar and pass traffic. From my memory of the UK, it can be a bit restrictive when it comes to transits: protecting airspace for the possibility of a go around etc. We just modify the go around instructions and pass traffic.

I would have thought a possible solution would be to request one, but inform the controller that you are able to take the other if it suits them better...

i.e. ...........request VFR entry clearance, can accept IFR clearance if required

.....as you have seen from the replies here, it may depend on traffic situation, weather, level, etc. So what might be good for the traffic in the Class D on one day might not be so good on another day. Giving the controller the choice for what suits them better is always a nice way of doing it!!

If all you state is requesting entry clearance, then yes we will ask which flight rules you can prefer or can accept.

Think Neptune has that right, most days VFR will work, especially if the transit can be a bit flexible, but other times the certainty of IFR can mean you get just what you want.

Try flying in Northern Ireland and getting a transit through Aldergrove airspace at 2000 feet VFR, usual response is "negative, remain outside controlled airspace, basic service only". If the radio traffic levels are very quiet (usually) and you ask for a delay time or a reason, a typical response is "inbound Easyjet 50 miles to run 3000 feet above you, you wouldn't be separated if I let you through the zone!":ugh:

Simple solution, turn transponder off and fly right round the line on the map.:ok:

This problem at EGAA has been discussed here before. Have a word with the SATCO panpan', or failing that GATCO or possibly GA Chirp. I don't know their current procedures, but if that is a genuine response to a CTR transit request, it sounds odd. I did 18 years on approach radar, in Rule 21, (Class A), and later Class D Airspace. Even if the radar at EGAA was u/s, there should be some way of accommodating VFR transits.

At my unit I would prefer VFR but this would be at Not Above 2000'. If you wanted higher you could go IFR at above Min Stack then it's not my problem :)

I very very RARELY refused a transit at EGAA.

When this was brought up by Panpan before I told him the name of the boss and asked him to direct his complaints there, It appears he didn't.

Easier to come on here and whinge .

As to the crossing.

VFR,and if necessary,points to hold .

Glamdring - as a matter of interest, why not above 2000 ft? Is that the limit of Class D airspace?


2 s

Maybe separating VFR from IFR...? :eek:

No real reason tbh, and I personally wouldn't stick to it rigidly. Just seems to be standard practice here. Not so much "separating" them from IFR but it does keep them out the way.

So really controlling as if it were Class C airspace when, in Class D, that is not what is mandated?

2 s

Hmm, I wonder where that is...

The Approach units at TC are definitely encouraged to "over control" VFR transits. The airlines do not want or like any form of TCAS alert when on approach, thus to save paperwork and time explaining your actions, VFR crosses are routed well clear of inbound or outbound aircraft.

Loads of traffic information is passed, tower controllers informed and encouraged to work the aircraft, some may refuse as they are too busy. At times the whole process is just so much hassle, crossings are refused.

Unfortunately these are the facts! Let the discussions commence.

"Routeing clear..." is one thing but I was querying the authority to impose a level restriction when the airspace classification does not mandate it and there is further class D airspace above the level restriction. Another consideration is that specifically in the case of a single-engine aircraft, it limits the time and options in the event of an engine failure.


2 s

Oh dear......http://www.nats.aero/news/caa-backs-belfast-airspace-reclassification/

2 sheds, class D is still controlled airspace for VFR flights, we can control VFR flights just as much as in class C if we want to.

I think you're mixing class D and class E up a bit ;)

I reckon 2 sheds will agree that that is control for the sake of it...

That's why the "if we want to" was added :)

Not mixing anything up, jmm - don't quite see your point as I was not referring to any specific location. I would suggest that your approach of "we can control VFR flights just as much (in Class D...)" is precisely my point - that that classification should not be a mandate for arbitrary level restriction just for ATC convenience beyond, perhaps, initially after departure if there is a holding pattern overhead the aerodrome.

2 s

Glad I spent most of my career in Class A where I knew who was running the show!

With you there, HD. Same applies to me. I had a year in Class G , & in a little bit of another unit's Class D after retiring from Class A. It was a real "eye opener". In my opinion Radar Controllers in Class G are real heroes !

I spent 34 years providing radar services in class G, many of them with high performance military aircraft. Now I'm a FISO, the airfield where I occasionally work is in class D!

That sums you up. A controller in uncontrolled airspace, and an uncontroller in controlled airspace. You always were an odd-ball... :8

Anne1 is clear on the subject:
Class C. IFR and VFR flights are permitted, all flights are provided with air traffic control service and IFR flights are
separated from other IFR flights and from VFR flights. VFR flights are separated from IFR flights and receive traffic
information in respect of other VFR flights.




Class D. IFR and VFR flights are permitted and all flights are provided with air traffic control service, IFR flights are
separated from other IFR flights and receive traffic information in respect of VFR flights, VFR flights receive traffic
information in respect of all other flights.

Computers or digits again! Should be Annex 11

The classification is EXACTLY mandating that... otherwise you'd have class E instead ;) I do understand your point though, my point is: Control is control, it's not like it comes in various degrees... the same goes with seperation, either you will be seperated, or you won't. We're still here to "prevent collision between aircraft" and "expedite and maintain an orderly flow of traffic". I do agree, there's no need to restrict VFR flights if not needed.

Lucky you :)

(By the way, I know who's running it in D as well, I do!)

I could show you screen shots of such aviation muppetry from Class G that would make a grown ATCO cry !! Although the glider down the runway (opposite direction) at 50ft is my personal favourite - just a shame we didn't get his tail number as both us and the BGA would have "thrown the book at him". But as in most walks of life the poor standards of a few ruin it for the majority.

All very pretty but I don't see why I still can't fly around the edge of the zone at 1999 feet if refused a transit. The class E changing to D started at 2000 feet, don't see that the levels have changed.:ok: