Western Radar [UK] 3 mornings [0615] 0630-1330, 3 afternoons 1330-2100, 3 days off. Mandatory excess hours working which accrues TOIL.

How is it we recognise a. n. european state's license and give out a UK one, but won't do the same for someone leaving the RAF......?

I was aiming more rhetorical than actual enquiry!

I don't know what things are like now but when I was operational, RAF ATC was totally different to civvy. I had experience of this at home and abroad. They had different priorities and it would not have been possible for a military controller to move straight to civvy ATC without training.

There were some ex-RAF guys on my radar course. If you need a reason why they can't just change their licences over then I suggest you go and watch them doing the courses.

Well said reportyourlevel!

LookingForAJob
 

I agree with you....absolutely. Your comments are accurate, and you are not alone....and I speak from many years OJT. Difficult to overcome the inertia of mil phraseology and technique....people who are "always right" need careful handling and understanding to assist transition to the ATC family rather than an "us and them" rank structure.

JP

on tower/approach possibly... particularly at places like bournemouth or cardiff which are a little more like mil airfields with a mix of traffic and not all non stop commercial jets. Heathrow/Gatwick different but the skills are a bit more transferable.

Area is completely different.

Fast track courses have been tried before and in the main did not work. Some of it was down to attitude... old and bold military controllers who thought they knew best and couldn't shut up and learn

Old and bold instructors who sometimes resented mil controllers joining.

Speaking as a someone on your watch who is ex mil and did tower/app and area in the mil before joining NATS. The area course was hard (for me) and I was supposedly a very good mil controller. I had to unlearn a lot of discrepancies to work the way the college needed me to.

Of course TC controlling is more akin to mil than pure area, so that helped on OJT which was, fortunately, much easier for me.

Wise words Vulcan Lover...

If the situation were reversed, I could not visualise the military welcoming a civil controller with open arms and a rubber stamp!

2 s

Don't you need to pass a politeness test to be qualified as a civil ATCO? :E

Vulcan Lover and HD;

You are correct, but I'm sure that if it was the other way round then plenty experienced civvy ATCO's would have the same attitude.

Part of the make up of an ATCO I think. You need to be a bit self assured to do the job well, and some people just can't reign themselves in and realise that the past experience is a bonus but nothing to harp on about. Just keep your head down, listen and you will learn something new, and your previous experience will shine through when it comes to real controlling and thinking on your feet.

As LookingForaJob says, the skills of a civvy ATCO do not mean they could just walk into a mil job. The nature of the flying etc means different set of problems and priorities. I seem to remember something in JSP 318 about controlling in the mil and one of the quotes was about the high likelihood of emergencies due to the way the aircraft are operated.

Both sets of controllers have their strong pints, but although ATC is ultimately about keeping aircraft apart, the job differs. I think that a good, level headed ex mil ATCO can enhance the course for fellow coursemates.

IMHO that's what used to be so good about NATS courses - you seemed to get a real mix of people on course a few years ago - and all their experiences, either as controllers or just in life, made the whole course more rounded

Although with the Transport Act, and random Drugs & Alcohol testing, we can't do that on duty any more ;)