Scottish "Squawk ident"
 

Why, when climbing out of airfields into 'Scottish' airspace, do we routinely get asked to "squawk ident", but not when climbing into either 'London' or the bit of 'Scottish' formerly known as 'Manchester'?

On climb out from the airfields then you need to be identified & mode C verified, whereas when on transfer between other units or sectors then this has already been done by the first controller & therefore not needed.

So at EGAA I asked for an ident on departure (from either airport in the Belfast TMA). I received it...verified and validated. Then the jocks asked for it all over again on transfer. It did seem to upset crews who never fully understood why my validation/verification process appeared not to satisfy the centre. The process was NOT reversed as silent handovers( subject to certain conditions being met) were the order of the day.

We (Belfast) did try to get it changed but with no success.

DTY/LKS - thanks for your answer, but still puzzled as to why we are only asked for this by the (original) 'Scottish' airspace, but not when climbing out of an airfield and transferring to 'London' or the ex Manchester bit of 'Scottish' - or for that matter when departing airfields in Germany, France, or anywhere else I can think of off the top of my head

Anodyne

what airfields are you talking about? Any of the major london airports and you will be asked to squawk ident. If departing a smaller airfield which has it's own radar controllers, they can identify you using the departing aircraft method... i.e. (if memory serves) a pre notified departure within one mile of the runway...

Why would a request to squawk "ident" upset any crew? All you have to do is press a button.

Must admit even stroppy git myself couldn`t quite understand what the problem is with it shy.

In fact I am on the ATCO`s side when some plonker does it with out being asked to.

In fact can we make the standard reply to anyone who idents with the intial call "fud" in scottish airspace.

Strange, always been doing this in Scotland and never thought about it much...it's the only part of Europe I always get asked to squawk ident. Curious why too... :)

London TMA airfields - in some cases the tower validates and verifies using the aerodrome traffic montior, in others not, depends on the kit at the field and the integrity of the link to the centre. If tower does it we don't need to, if not you'll be asked for the ident (in theory before being given any executive instructions, in reality we all know waiting isn't realistic given airspace complexity and frequency loading etc) Luton validates and verifies, Stansted and Heathrow don't, can't speak for Gatwick! I assume the Scottish airfields don't validate and verify.

Worth remembering too that by the ketter of the law, unless you ident in response to a request to do so, it doesn't count as identifying you, so we *should* wait for it to stop, then instruct you to do it again, all before giving any instructions. But is the SID that long?!

anotherthing:

Based at BHX, and fly out of MAN fairly often, also don't remember being asked to ident when last operating out of LGW (a couple of months ago). However always required to ident when departing a Scottish airfield - both those that are directly connected to the airways system such as GLA and EDI, as well as those that aren't e.g. INS.

Anodyne (and clarification for my north bank friend above you)

Departures from LGW should always be asked to ident on first contact with London. As he stated as well, if a pilot checks in stating he is squawking ident, then we are supposed to ask again

If EGLL and EGSS don't validate and verify, then is it Swanwick's responsibility?

Zooker - yes.

Shy torque.......I guess you should address that question to a fellow aviator. All's I know is that it was a fairly common complaint from them.

Mad Jock......Yes squawking ident before being asked to upon departure does not constitute a proper ident ( as per MATS 1) and we were instructed to ask for the ident again .:hmm:

Or at any other time. There is nothing clever in an unsolicited ident.

Its a very British thing this identing anyway.

Most of Europe you never get asked for it even when climbing out through class G from an uncontrolled field and then going into controlled airspace at FL100.

Hmmm. Doesn't sound too sensible to me. How do they know for sure it's the aircraft? I've seen plenty of examples of pilots setting up the wrong transponder code.

Or even being given the wrong one in the clearance.

The just give you the new one if its wrong. Without an ident.

…like the two Midland shuttles (Glasgow-London and Edinburgh-London) whose manual code-callsign pairings got transposed on input, both southbound, both parallel, both at thirty three, but without ident. Fine, until the sequencing...

As far as London is concerned, it's usual to be told to "Squawk ident" when climbing from EGLW and leaving the ATZ into the Heathrow CTR.