Unprofessional controllers HESH
 

Disgusted at yesterdays utterly unprofessional attempts at controlling.
The TUI guy ahead of me was given a right royal bollocking for no reason whilst I was at 300' on approach...unintelligible requests for niff naff and trivia straight after landing and then unsafe vectors on departure.

What an awful, dangerous little **** hole..:ugh:

But this happens in the best of places (big European airport). Last week I was asked to speed up whilst being kept level prior to a handover. But just before the handover I told the current controller that I wouldn't be able to make the next altitude constraint some 16,000' lower. It took an age to check in and when I did, I was asked to slow up from 290 to 210, descend and then make the constraint. Short of lowering the gear, no chance! When I told the controller I couldn't make the restraint all I got was a bollocking! As this is the first time I'll let it lie, but if this gets to be commonplace I'll start getting upset.

PM

Wasn't there a time when ATC's called pilots Sir?

No!! Pilot's have been known to call controllers "Sir"!! Or at least since I joined, some 40 years ago.

He probably forgot his entry point into Cairo and his registration! I hope he filed an ASR.

<<Wasn't there a time when ATC's called pilots Sir? >>

For the younger brethren, it was just good manners and NOT an indication of subserviance. Pilots and controllers often called each other "sir", just as I use the same salutation to any gentleman who's name I do not know, irrespective of his social status.

Piltdown Man
 

You guys really must file on these episodes....you pay enough in Nav Charges! You might uncover a lack of training and understanding... apart from any safety implication. The earlier you can file then the greater chance for Radar and R/T tapes to be held. Most of your report made me ill just reading it, and it reflects badly on the vast majority of competent controllers. If you don't want to file an official report I suggest "CHIRP".

Linton
 

Linton....it was some such irrelevant ****e that they asked for....entry point/registration/pob/ inside leg measurement.
Then to be held short of a dug up runway.....not one other aircraft moving on the entire airport........

Bloody horrid place. Dangerous.


Didn't ASR as it would be a waste of my valuable time.:ugh:

But venting here on a predominately British website helps huh? What exactly do you think that achieves?

Bitch through your ops and maybe....just maybe they would help address it.

Nowt.

Didn't insinuate it would. Just made one feel a little better:8

It's good to vent.

@ Piltdown

The lack of performance knowledge in newer controllers is definitely lacking. At least once every day I will sit cringing at what the controller next to me says as they push the performance envelope. The three main reasons are poor training, the drying up of cockpit famils, and selection of ab-initios who may pass some HR hoop-jumping exercise but who have no or little aviation knowledge/enthusiasm.

May I suggest all pilots try to get in to their local ATC centre and sit in with the youngest looking person there, and educate them on AC performance.

I'm trying my best to pass on my knowledge (have flown jets) but it's a slow process.......

@SFCC

Please file every time you get mucked around excessively as it will be investigated and hopefully procedures will be changed. However it was my experience that plenty of occurrences were not adequately investigated in the sand pit, so best you raise those ones with ops or your IFACTA safety rep.

FUN.LEVER.FORWARD
Totally agree, once had a trainee order a USAF flight to reduce speed to 265 Kts to which he replied, ever so politely, that if he did so his aircraft would fall out of the sky. She, the trainee, had absolutely no idea as to the envelope of flight, airspeed, etc, and this after having undergone the full ATC college training. On unit training sorted out many misconceptions, but not all.
The trainee later went back to the college as an instructor!!!!!

Say no more.

Cheers:eek:

Raise any safety issues with your ops department and get them to action it. I know exactly where you are coming from and it irks me that some fellow controllers seem to have no idea about aircraft performance. Controllers should know any restriction required in their airspace and advise you guys in plenty of time. Whilst "descend when ready" might not always be appropriate,you must be able to apply relevant restrictions in your airspace. As a trainee you have an excuse, but as a valid controller or an instructor, you do not. I accept that weather can play havoc with restrictions but it is not rocket science. I heard of a controller ask a B747 to reduce speed to mach .73 last week, I mean, come on!!! The competent amongst us will always strive to do our best to assist, unfortunately I cannot speak for all controllers. Stay safe guys and don't taint us all with the same brush. :ok:

Now you know what the SH really stands for in HESH. :}

Still you can pick me to do a fact finding mission, put me up for 6 months with a descent crust and I'll bare the hardship... I might even be able to make some improvements, but probably not... :-)