mr garabaldi
 

I am long retired but may I offer a word of advice? 'MInesthechevy' was not to my mind talking down to you, only trying to be helpful. When I was a very young lad in the air force there was a saying 'Lord, teach me to keep my mouth shut until I know what I am talking about'.I hope you see what I am getting at.- times change I know, but when you are applying to start a career it helps just to go with the flow.
My advice to anyone joining ATC is to try and get an aerodrome posting.Why?you may ask. Airfields get you closer to the whole spirit of aviation, you get to meet pilots, people at flying clubs ( not at the London ones so much)etc and after a few years there will be a chance to move over to 'area'. However my son is at Swanwick and he loves it.I worked at West Drayton, which I hated because it felt like I was in a factory - having spent time at lots of fantastic airfields when in the RAF I had got spoilt. I managed to get to an airfield eventually and had a great time at Heathrow, after postings to Stornoway and Boscombe Down.
I am trying to phrase my final sermon carefully - apart from the housing costs and crowded roads etc living in the south of England is very eye-opening for people from further north. We don't care what your religion is,what team you support,what your politics are, colour of the hair etc etc. Folk are accepted for what they are!

After all that, best of luck to you in your interviews and to any other hopeful who reads this.

Very little chance of moving from tower to centre now Brian as tower trainees don't do area tickets so would have to go via college again which someone would have to pay for, which for the forseeable isn't going to happen.

mrgaribaldi... You have one hell of a lot to learn. If you start using foul language to any training officers you may encounter, your feet probably won't touch the floor...

I truly do NOT think you are cut out for ATC with your weird attitude. I spent much of my career training controllers so be assured that I know a bit about it.

Calm down, accept that there are lots of people who know what they are talking about on here and accept that there is a lot of humour in ATC which controllers get used to.... or they usually don't make it.

Good luck.

To my mind and several others, he was being rude. If he was not, then I sincerely apologise. Im more than happy to be screamed at ( I was in the Army for god sake ) however, I dislike people being rude ( as i saw it in his post ) when all I did was ask a simple question. I fail to see how that is illogical in anyway whatsoever. So yeh, apologies if I misunderstood, but as you can see I was not the only person to see that it did come across in a bad way. As for instructors at ATC, like I said I was in the army. However, even in there I would not allow people ( be it SNCO's or officers ) to talk to me a rude way when it was not warranted. I joined the army to be a soldier, not to take **** of people because they feel like giving it to me for no reason ( if it was warranted, then thats a different matter ). I feel exactly the same towards anything else in life really.... Im not there to take crap off people for no reason and if it happens they will get it right back. Like previously mentioned, if it is warranted, then thats fair enough. If that makes me dick'ed so be it. Id rather that than be known as a walk over in life.

End of conversation as far as im concerned.

Calm down mrgarabaldi, nice day in Glasgow today come join us in the City's finest boozers ;)

In response to the original question, asked for Heathrow or anywhere in the South. Got Aberdeen:mad:

Solved that problem by volunteering for Belfast, had a great time, made a small fortune and got any posting of my choice after three years:) (Heathrow!)

Then again, that was 35 years ago

Barry

Im actually really calm dude. Just annoying that because you defend your self againt someone who you percieve to be being rude towards you, then all of a sudden your a terrible bloke who aint suited to this career. If being in ANY profession means I take crap of people for nothing, then I dont want it. Il let other monkeys become robots, and let them be walked over.

'' we accept folk for who they are '' '' we dont care about football, your religion....'' thats amusing, as you have already assumed that Im into religion, poitics and football, when I deteste all of them. Perhaps you should keep your mouth shut on matters you know nothing about. Clearly you have a mindset of what Glaswegians (technically, im not as I only moved there 5 years ago ) are like, thus dont just judge them on '' what they are like ''... but on how you percieve them. Too much Rab C Nesbitt maybe?

So it wasn't the end of the conversation then... Someone once said to me it's better to keep silent and appear stupid then to open your mouth and remove all doubt. If if you don't like certain members opinions that's fine, but you don't need to get into a slanging match, just don't respond...

Well said.

garibaldi
 

I wasn't going to reply because this is all getting a bit tedious.I suggest you reread my post as it was not directed specifically at Glaswegians - some of my best friends have come from there. My post also mentions the fact that I have worked, therefore lived in Scotland.
The fact that you are no longer in the army speaks volumes.From rereading your posts I would say you are unsuited to ATC.

moving after validation
 

Was going to start a new thread, as well er this has gone off topic slightly but anyways...


Barry, you mentioned that after three years you got a posting of your choice ( albeit thirty five years ago :P ).... does anyone have experience of this in the present day? I have my stage one in November... Il be happy to just get the job to be honest, I dont mind moving... Just curious about the internal movements that can happen?

Any info is appreciated!

Good point..
Some get a transfer within a reasonable amount of time (3 years or so).
Some others wait forever and then some.
Some never get it.
Like everything else in NATS, double (multiple?) standards apply.

Well, back in the mid 70's, EGAA was a "special" place. Due to the local, how shall we say it...... activities, they could not post anyone there, you had to volunteer. As volunteers were in short supply you could name you terms :D

Barry

Recently NATS have decided they can and will post anyone there as a regular posting. This is usually followed very swiftly by the employees securing positions with other ANSPs.

Bond the Buggahs.....stop wasting our time!

<<Too much Rab C Nesbitt maybe?>>

That's precisely how you come across... When I was training controllers, once they had been training for a while and showed signs of "making it", two questions had to be answered in the affirmative: "Is he/she safe"? and "Can I work with him/her?" Do keep that second one in mind. ATC can be very stressful and it you are going to blow your top and lurch into foul language at the drop of a hat I don't think you'll make it. Prove me wrong, eh....

There used to be a time when training reports were pretty much subjective; however, thankfully in NATS those days are gone. We have an objective driven training process with clearly defined objectives to be met; 'do I like him' is not an objective on the training reports, it's all about whether you can do the job safely. Don't let yourself be put off by any of the comments on here.

Ah, yes, another example of a nice theory getting in the way of real life.......:D

One wonders why, with all the experts hanging round on this thread, NATS bothers to invest thousands of pounds each year in a rigorous recruitment and selection process?!

Towering Cu
 

I can not disagree at all with your post; however my initial post was to point out to the originator of this thread that his reply to 'minesthechevy' was perhaps unwarranted.
Back in the late 70s/early 80s LL had a fearful reputation as a place to validate. I remember when I was at DM having applied to go there an, ATCA who was ex-LL said to me 'LL is a funny place Brian, I saw people who seemed to be doing OK and all of a sudden they had 'looked at someone in a funny way' and then boom they were gone!, but there would be someone who was initially struggling and they pulled the stops out'.
What you have to take on board is that people like HD and I arrived when the training culture was different. As an example, I trained on aerodrome at BB - on my first weekend in the TWR the phone rang and the ATCA taking the call said to me that I was wanted downstairs in the radar room. I went down and another ATCA said 'OK sunshine, part of your duties on the weekend are to make the tea for everyone, there's the kettle,make sure you get it right'. Six months before I had been the most experienced Herc nav on my squadron at DL, people respected me and asked my opinion. So what did I do? I made the tea, I wanted to validate as I had a wife and 3 kids to support,I had applied to the CAA for a job,they hadn't come headhunting for me.I can not imagine anyone being so accepting now!
When HD started at LL there were some fearful people about,who did not take prisoners - many of them had seen service in WW2 - the modern touchy feeling way of handling u/ts did not exist.
As I said, times change, but thankfully even my 37yr old son who is now an OJTI,LCE,Assessor etc at TC preferred to be trained by a 'hard bastard' (sorry CB!).
When I retired I promised myself I would never pontificate about ATC and RAF navigation matters,restricting myself to swapping memories and where are they now type posts - but as I said earlier Garibaldi's rude response struck a chord.
BTW.

PS I hoped you noticed that both HD and I wished him good luck!