ICAO Level 4 testing standards
 

Thoughts on ICAO Level 4 language testing

after almost 40 years experience in Aviation (ground not flight) Having basically retired to the Bulgarian Capital Sofia became bored and started consulting and training in the regulatory environment.

Saw an opportunity as a aviation savvy English speaker to set up a testing facility for ICAO level 4 Eastern Europe I am shocked with so many different elements of the whole story

Also bearing in mind the importance of effective communication I was on night shift at Gatwick back in the mid 70's when news of the tenerife disaster broke ! that it keeps on and will keep on happening is something we have the power to deal with (the Human Factor / CRM story)

but airlines which bend the rules are doing them selves a dis service and unfortunately there are too many examples

First ICAO is weak and has no real mandate no carrot and no stick

second EASA has not mandated any regulatory framework and is unlikely to do so for maybe 4 years

third the Competent Authorities are part of the problem and not the solution

I hear today that Hungary is considering a waiver for all its flight crews to remove the need for formal testing I am shocked. A couple of recent events the LOT 737 lost over London and unable to effectively communicate with ATC due to poor language

a French pilot who tried to get a job with Ryan and was told he needed to exchange his license for an Irish one, He was told that his problem was not Aviation English it was English !! It was so poor no one could believe he had been awarded or provided with a level 6 rating by AF (merci beaucoup)

So what is the answer

The evidence before me shows we have not learnt our lessons that the possibility of yet one more tragic accident and unnecessary event

A simple fix

There is one which could be very easily brought to bear in Europe for those familiar with the dreaded SAFA inspection

to include a simple communication with the pilots (both) and if they can not provide effective responses then to ground the aircraft until a replacement pilot is found

but this is back to the weakness of EASA unfortunately and one more manifestation

not even to mention Safety Management systems where the whole of europe is out of compliance with ICAO annex 6 requirements

any thoughts ?

Its a question of convenience.
 

Its a question of convenience. The French issue a pilots level 6 willy nilly.
The French think that if you complete their pilot training for a French license you must be level 6 and will therefore issue a level 6 based on that alone !!!!
Example, a native English (and I mean English) pilot complete his ATPL in France and was therefore awarded a level 6 in French. He was in reality not even a level 4 in French. The French logic was that if he could complete the course and pass it he must be level 6. !!!! On the other hand the same pilot was only awarded a level 5 for his English skill.

I believe the french controllers approach the problem in a more professional manner and will only award a level which is really proven using a proven exam.

Many European regulator bodies want to appease the pilots who may find themselves stopped from flying if they can't communicate. Its a question of convenience.

Eurocontrol have approached the task for the European air traffic controller force in the correct manner. Their ELPAC examination is only designed to test up to level 5. This makes sense because a non native English speaker may suffer a drop in ability if they do not use the language on a regular basis. Eurocontrol spent over 3 years developing a series of examinations, trialing them over and over again and finally submitting the data to an independent university for verification. All that before they released the first examination version. Well done eurocontrol. Elpac = level 4 and 5. If an exam is only rated to level 5 a level 6 can not be issued. This is quite correct.

One central european (they make cheese with holes in it) aviation administrator, had their level 4 examination developed by the Germans. No time to make one of their own, because like many other organizations they did nothing after ICAO gave the world 5 years warning of the coming standards. Then under recent pressure from the national airline, hastily internally developed a level 5 and 6 exam. Un proven, barely tested and not independently checked by a neutral professional body. Basically a saving face maneuver under pressure from the pilots. Safety has slipped into second or third place.

Why did they want a level 6 exam? It's only so that they'll be examined less and save the inconvience of having to take an exam every 3 to 6 years.

Some administrations want to accept a cambrigde first or profiency certificate as a measure of ability. This is not acceptable and not a measure of the required standard.

I mention this particular cheese making central european aviation administrator because they are typical of many European civil aviation administrations. A tight budget, no people, pressure from the pilots, and will NOT do anything really safe until there is an accident. Just like the Hungarians for the pilots. The Hungarian air traffic controllers use the Eurocontrol ELPAC examination – well done. The pilots ????? less so if that is the case.

As Steve_ben says
" I hear today that Hungary is considering a waiver for all its flight crews to remove the need for formal testing I am shocked. A couple of recent events the LOT 737 lost over London and unable to effectively communicate with ATC due to poor language"

The Hungary waiver and the cheese makers unproven exam are most likely only the tip of the ice berg. Pilots in Europe do not have the equivalent of the controllers eurocontrol and therefore no unified standard examination like the ELPAC. They are at the mercy of profit making commercial organizations who are more than ready to sell training material and examinations. The eurocontrol exam is free and of high, proven quality. It is not however designed for pilots.

Yes good luck with the training and testing steve_ben and please make sure the results are honest. I might be a passenger on one of the following post examination flights.

Keep it safe.
Like they say ...
"If you think safety is expensive, try an accident !!!"

Interestingly though our ANSP decided to let us choose between ELPAC (only up to level 5) and RELTA (all levels available).

Avinor in Norway use RELTA, and so far no one has flunked it.
(I got a 6 :D ,and I'm glad it't not a written test as well, because my spelling is, well, poor! :) )

The Swedes let their controllers use private test if they pay for it. Some have used a test performed by the Swedish glider pilot asociation for their members. They have a 100% level 6 success rate.......

Given the level of English spoken by Swedish glider pilots in general i find that highly suspect. (They use Swedish on the R/T 100% of the time IMHO)

Unfortunately it is not just aviation that suffers from this problem of non-compliance. There seems to be a general attitude in many European countries that having a regulation is an end in itself - compliance with the regulation is seen as optional unless or until the authorities deem it to be to their advantage. The problem is, I think, a cultural one, which makes it very difficult to overome unless very big sticks are waved around by a supra-national authority with the cojones to do so
(Supra-national authority = cojones? Contradiction in terms!)

I can categorically assure you that after March 2011, ICAO will be going through each member state like a dose of salts in relation to LPRs.

Some countries are making valiant efforts to be compliant while others are dragging their heels or qualifying their personnel "en masse".

An ICAO audit will require full disclosure of documentation AND more importantly, justification for whatever rating has been given.
Those who have just signed off all of their pilots and controllers as a Level 6, 5 or 4 without testing are in for a shock.

Mark my words.

And in answer to the original poster, ICAO are not weak, they DO have a proper mandate and I have been very surprised in the past about how big a stick they can carry.....and use when it is required.

But also folks....remember that ICAO are not the aviation police and did not generate the LPRs alone.
Like most other mandates, they were ASKED by member states to put this in place.
We have India to thank for the original request. They were very brave to go and ask for it, and it has taken thirteen years to get it to this stage.

Glider pilot test, FOR CONTROLLERS, all Level 6 !!!!!! ?
 

Is this professional ?
The Sweeds may be good, but all Level 6 ??????

No!

The glider pilots have certainly pulled the wool over the Swedish CAAs eyes IMHO :)

Looks like the Swedish ANSP are going to use ELPAC or RELTA for most controllers, so everything in order on the bigger scale.

Hi all

Can anyone tell me a pilot can fly in UK airspace with English Level 3 ?

Cheers,

ABO

ABO

Yes you can.

Completely and utterly off topic:

Got my RELTA results back last week. 6! Jaay. No need to take the :mad: test again. Ever!

:ok::}:8;):D:O:E

The swedish controllers are tested through RELTA.

thpaulsen.
No real problem with your Anglo-saxon then! :}

Look at Mr Farrell using his powers for good for once.........

;)

Shut it!!! :)

"How do you say" or when is level 6 no longer level 6
 

Just to get it straight.
Level 6 does not mean native speaker.

It does however mean that once tested and passed at level 6 that the language standard will be the same 150 years or even only 20 years from now, even if the person with a level 6 never uses the language again.

That means not having to say,
"how do you say?"
or
"whats the word for?"
or
talking about "otels" or "willages" or "elicopters"
or any word searching of any kind.

The fact is, that if a particular language is not your native tongue and you do not use it, you will not remain at that level.

When I was a child of 8 years I could speak Italian like a native, it was where I lived and went to school. But now 40 years later my Italian is limited to ordering a beer. So thats OK :) level 6 in Italian, yes?

There will be a fall off in ability. A level 5 will eventually become a level 4 and a level 4 may slip without noticing it to level 3. So I dont think a fresh level 6 will always be a level 6.

So maybe we should be reexamining non native speaking level 6 holders too.

I saw a really bad english BBC TV soap the other day, based in London. Their level of english as native speakers was only just a level 4 !!! It was a disgrace to the english language. Reminded me of the challange Harry Higgins had in the film "My fair Lady".

Maybe we should test native Londoners english too.

Whats wrong with taking a test every so often? We do it with our medicals because we know our health will go down.
Healthy today, dead tomorrow :{

Pulkovo 2010-01-10

Level 4 controller?

http://www.radioscanner.ru/files/dow...ar10_01_10.mp3

http://www.radioscanner.ru/files/dow...nd10_01_10.mp3

Putting aside any other control aspects - and the issue of whether the recordings should be posted - I would hazard a guess that the English language proficiency of the controller on both recordings better (perhaps significantly better) than that required for level 4.

Lol. Which one?

Ok, everybody,

Don't you think we should stop talking about testing, testing, testing.

Let's talk about refresher course.
It's normal if you speak only the Phraseology for 20 years that you will degrade in your English, if you only use the normal English language when you go on a vacation “to order beer".

Don’t you all think that it will be much, much better to have regular refresher course for English too, let’s say every 2 years, like we all go for Radar refresher, OJTI refresher course, etc…???