From ATCO to ATMO
 

Hi All

I just want to get the opinion of other ATCs regarding our issue with our administration.

Our Civil Service Commission plans to change our ATCO designation to ATMO (Air Traffic Management Officer). No big deal I say; it's just a title. But the thing that intrigues me the most is that, with this directive, all ATS personnel will become ATMOs irrespective of the sector that they are working. Tower, Approach and Area personnel will share the same responsibility (not to mention salary) as Airways Communications, Flight Information, Aerodrome Advisory and Flight Planning/Briefing Officers.

The ATC union has widely contested this but to no avail.

The implications are very obvious but can anyone please comment on this.

Thanks
Amihan

Globally what was once Air Traffic Control is now known as ATM, so I guess there is nothing in a name, the real issue would of course be changes in terms and conditions of individual ATMO roles.

It is a bit amateurish if the civil service think that a change in title is an opportunity to reduce costs.

Nice to see someone from the Philippines here, one of my favourite places in the world.:ok:

Rgds

To IThink
 

Thanks for the comment. Im a fan of the forum, just lurking most of the time.

As I said, I have no issues with the change in our designation. I just don't agree with the idea that soon, an aerodrome controller's decision is more the same as a flight information services' advice.

With our current set-up, I don't need to research (when it comes to job description), that a ground controller is the same as an enroute controller as they are both ATCOs manning different sectors. It's pretty much self-explanatory. With the new proposal, a terminal radar controller is the same as a flight following officer as they are both ATMOs manning different sectors. I, and my fellow ATCs don't get it.

I think ATMO is a misnomer. "Air Traffic Control Officer" describes the job precisely. I controlled aircraft for 35-odd years. A "Manager" is someone who wanders around a furniture store....

(Exits stage left, climbs into flameproof Chieftain Tank and drives off into the sunset...)

HD,
Not so fast in that flame-proof Chieftain.
You're spot on.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't do, teach. (O.K there are exceptions here).
Those who excel in neither of the above fields, call themselves 'managers'.

P.S. Don't get me started on 'Consultants', 'Co-ordinators', 'Business Partners', or those self-proclaimed 'Experts' who are frequently interviewed on the BBC.

It seems to me that 'losers' who can't make the 'officer class', often worm their way into positions of authority where they attempt to undermine or demean those who can.
Hope all's well in Manila. Keep pushing the envelope! :E

:} PMSL!!!!

amihan - you're right to be concerned.

Fight that one all the way.

It seem s to be change for the sake of change.
However, if there are different grades within that structure then the status quo will be maintained?

Why keep the term 'officer'? :suspect:

So long as they pay you...who cares what they call you?:rolleyes:

Agree with HD and MAP, we are Air Traffic Controllers, we tell aircraft where to go and what to do, what has that got to do with management?
I think the term Officer goes back to the 1950's with the old war boys who probably felt a sense of superiority with the term 'Officer'.
Management tend to walk around corridors holding pieces of paper, probably blank, a bit like most of their ideas.........:ok:

@ divingduck
I'm with you - as my departed father-in-law used to say - "you can call me anything you like, as long as it's not late for dinner !" :}

We welcome change, it comes with the profession.

However, if with the change comes the fact that two people with different levels of training and expertise are to be regarded as equal, then that is unacceptable and unfair I believe.

whatyoumeanpullup
 

Sorry to say I have worked with many Air Traffic Observers and Air Traffic Suggesters in my time:E... in all fairness, plenty of controllers too..the controllers were the ones who didn't care what our title was, as then man said, just so long as they pay us on time:ok:

Well, I've always considered ATM to mean air traffic services, airspace management and air traffic flow management. As an ATCO I thus consider my duties to include in addition to just air traffic control service also

flight information service, alerting service and air traffic advisory service. So I guess ATM officer might even be a more suitable title than just ATCO.

Of course what I'm paid big bucks (:rolleyes:) for providing is actual air traffic control service, keeping aircraft from hitting each other and so on, and the people who only provide let's say flight information get paid quite a lot less. Why ATCOs get more money may in some cases only be a result of effective labour union policy, but ATC is what flyboys usually want to receive, not just FIS so I guess it's only fair.

I don't really mind if a flight information service officer's decision is equal to mine, after all it only applies in his field of service. I mean, as long as people are competent, (and ATCOs get the money they deserve ;)) what is the real problem even if you are all included under the same title?

I think it is fair to say that these days managers reorganise, seemingly because they continually get it wrong! We are at the start of yet another re-org only a few months since the last shambles!

Duck
 

Air Traffic Controllers do exactly that, control aircraft, "whats in a name as long as they pay me on time"? nothing, but management do not change anything without looking at changing other things, terms and conditions are the normal ones. Unless of course you work, and have worked in places where management are great and understand and listen to the concerns of the staff and do not do such stupid things as change terms and conditions. If this is the case you are making then let me know who your current employer is and your previous employers, they must be brilliant to work for.

ATCO not equal with ATMO
 

There is one upside to becoming an Air Traffic Manager in my experience. That is that when I changed my occupation on my frequent flyer card from ATCO to ATM, I started getting upgrades. This is after 30 years of never having been upgraded. Coincidence - maybe. But I'd be interested to hear if any other ex-ATCO's suddenly find they are getting more upgrades as ATMs.
See you all in business class.

On the beach :ok:

On the beach.. An ex-colleague of mine, who happened to be the most senior operational ATCO at Heathrow at the time, had business cards printed saying "SATCO Heathrow" (or words to that effect). It sure worked..... until large amounts of stuff hit the fan!!

Just another thought on the thread... If you required the assistance of the Police, would you prefer to deal with a "Police Officer" or a "Police Manager"?

HD
 

In many parts of the world...Police Officer only refers to those above the rank of Sergeant.

Southern Actor and Whatumean...I still say that who cares what other people are getting called and paid. you get paid to do your job...do it!
BTW you are breaking my heart with the "oh my God we had it so tough" attitude...try working for a living outside in the freezing rain or in the burning sun, for amounts that we would pay in tax, then you may appreciate your perks of the air-conditioned office, relaxed dress code, relaxes working conditions and hours etc.
People do seem to take themselves just too seriously.

Whatumean...AsA (and all their previous incarnations) were pretty good in the old days, Oman were pretty good when I was there, UAE were pretty good when I was there and Ireland are pretty good now.

atc to atmo
 

The biggest issue here is...
not the name- rose by any other name is still a rose
maybe the downgrading of the ATC profession -How can a radio operator's license be equal to that of an ATC licence? Flight info service stations are just relaying stations for ATC-Pilot messages.

But The real issue here is SAFETY. How can an FSIS personnel be able to control traffic? I know for a fact that most of the personnel in these communication facilities flunked their atc subjects and does not qualify to be ATCs. Now you tell me, they'll be doing ATC work as well? VERY DANGEROUS!:mad: The Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines should rethink this through.:=

Surely FIS people can not just immediately begin providing ATC service if their job title is changed?! You need to have the appropriate license and ratings first, and I can't imagine any CAA allowing provision of service without people having passed the proper training and received the ratings etc.

Ahhh, is this FINALLY the crux of the issue?
 

Nickwings, finally we see what it is you are on about! Why did you (and others) not say this in the first place?

jaker has it right, they can't just "give" someone ratings to control aircraft...surely?

Our CAA sends people overseas for training to (somehow) enhance safety. They comeback with this solution; make everybody ATCs and call them ATMOs. Now isn't that clever or what? Very safe indeed.:D

I wouldn't be surprised when one day I report for work and see the cleaner wearing a headset.