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What does that mean?
We were at FL 300 and ATC said:
"When ready, descent FL 210, be at FL240 or bellow at 15 NM from ABC" My CPT leveled off at FL 240 at 15 NM from ABC and waited there before descending to FL210. I disagreed! Up to me (but he could be right), he was not allowed to level off at FL240. He told me "yes, because she said "when ready"". For me, when she said "when ready", this was to start the descend from FL300 to FL210 and to cross 15NM from ABC at or bellow FL240, and not to level off at FL240 and when ready descent to FL210! What do u think? |
Even though it was a "when ready" descent, once you start the descent, technically you shouldn't descend at any point at less than 500ftpm. So in this situation you are correct- it should have been a continuous descent to FL210, but making sure you made the level restriction stated. Sure somebody's going to disagree with me though!
On the other hand, the controller has given the descent restriction for a reason, so as long as you made that restriction, the controller probably wouldn't have been too bothered if you levelled of at FL240... |
Greetings,
I think (anyone can think :}) that this ATC clearance is just like a descent profile with a constraint to be at or BELOW FL240 (i.e., NOT ABOVE FL240) so the key is not when "ready" but "not to be above FL240", no need to level off :ok: |
Depending upon where you were in the world.......
Canadian AIM RAC 8-5-1 Paragraph b) If the phrase “when ready” is used in conjunction with an altitude clearance, the change of altitude may be initiated whenever the pilot wishes. When the change is initiated, the pilot should advise ATC. Pilots may temporarily level off at any intermediate altitude; however, pilots are expected to advise ATC of any temporary level-off at any intermediate altitude. Compliance with assigned or published altitude crossing restrictions and speeds is mandatory (CAR 602.31—Compliance with Air Traffic Control Instructions and Clearances), unless specifically cancelled by ATC. (MEAs are not considered restrictions; however, pilots are expected to remain at or above MEAs) |
Personally, if I give you a "when ready" descent with a restriction, I don't care whether you level off or not as long as you meet the restriction. If I gave you a "when ready" that means I blocked those levels to you.
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Jerricho - you have found one of the differences that the UK has from Canada and USA. In the UK FIR when a pilot is changing levels above the transition altitude the level change must be at or greater than 500fpm. :)
(paraphrase from UKAIP) |
Actually, this highlights some major differences in "phraseology" in different parts of the world.
Forgive the thread drift What would a UK controller think if they heard the phrase "Minimum Fuel" from a North American carrier? (I know what I would have thought before moving here) |
Aero-fleamarket: I agree with the Capt on this. I believe under the terms of the clearance, what he did is permissible. Of course, it all depends on where you were when this occurred. As tolgab says, there shouldn't really be a problem, as the terms of the clearance don't assure separation with anything other than at the restriction.
zkdli: Is there a requirement in the UK to continuously descend, once descent is commenced (even under a "when ready")? |
Hey,
It was over spain...
Originally Posted by ferris
Is there a requirement in the UK to continuously descend, once descent is commenced (even under a "when ready")
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