Struggling with the finer points of ATSOCAS. Procedural service is now part of the new ATSOCAS, right? So what happens to a controller providing radar control inside CAS when his radar fails? He reverts to separating procedurally. Is he not now providing a procedural service (ATSOCAS) inside CAS? If not, then what service is he providing?

And what if that same controller is advised that a VOR in his sector has failed, or that an airfield in the vicinity has had to close. If he passes this information to aircraft under his control, is he not providing flight information service inside CAS?

Am I being too pedantic, or is this another blooper that has slipped through the 774 to cause confusion?

:} Yes!


It is purely Air Traffic Services 'Outside Controlled Airspace'. End of.

Barnaby,

I know what ATSOCAS stands for. But referring to my original scenario. If an airways sector suffers radar failure they cannot continue to provide radar control. Separation must be provided procedurally. So logically that sector must be providing a procedural service, albeit inside CAS. If 'Procedural Service' as a title has been hijacked by ATSOCAS, what should we call the non-radar service provided inside CAS when radar fails?

Slow Service.

I would say the the same as before....... The name Procedural Service wasn't an official title prior to the review so nothing has changed inside CAS.

I didn't mean to sound rude in my last post. :ouch:

Approach Control?

Radar failure for Area controllers to answer, 'radarman', in CAS the service for us ole timers used to be called or implied that it was Procedural Control and I don't really think that has changed but as always I await to be corrected.

Non Radar service inside controlled airspace provided by an ATC unit to separate aircraft without the use of radar - Procedural Control

Non Radar service outside controlled airspace provided by an ATC unit to separate aircraft without the use of radar - Procedural Service.

My understanding is that inside controlled airspace an air traffic control service is provided. The way the service is provided depends on the flight rules of the flight(s). i.e. in class B, all flights are given instructions and all flights are separated while in class E only IFR flights are controlled but both VFR and IFR flights receive information that is available. See appropriate docs regarding the objectives of Air Traffic Control.

Outside controlled airspace the UK provides a flight information service. This service is provided in the form of Deconfliction Service, Traffic Service, Procedural Service or Basic Service as agreeed between the controller and the pilot.

Make no mistake about it, when you are getting a Deconfliction Service, you are being provided with a service that meets the UK's obligations in respect of Flight Information Service in Class F and G airspace.

When you are getting a Basic Service you are also being provided with a service that meets the UK's obligations in respect of Flight Information Service in Class F and G airspace.

They are simply opposite ends of the spectrum which is now Flight Information Service in the UK.

Or in other words the pilot and service provider have to agree on how good the flight information service that they are getting is going to be.

Semple No?

Regards,

DFC