University or ATC?
 

In september this year i am going to university to study BA Geography. However i can apply to NATS in March. Obviously, i will be finishing my A Levels but if i get into the college, what option should i take? Is going to university 1st a better choice or is NATS? Is anyone else in this situation or have been and how did they deal with it?

Thanks :)

You have plenty of time to apply to NATS. Go to university first and have a bit of fun while you're young. The studying required at uni will set you in good stead for the NATS college and at least it will give you something to fall back on.

Good call, definitely go to University and go for your degree. If you apply and get into NATS whilst at Uni & before you finish your studies then great, but if you don't get in then at least you can complete your University studies and choose an alternative suitable career armed with your degree. That was my strategy as I recall anyway! (I finished my University degree).

Best of luck to you.:ok:

Such a tough decision, do you think i should not even consider applying until after university? As i know if i did get through to the college i would take that opportunity :/
Are you both at NATS now? what do you have degrees in?

I was in the exact same position as yourself and elected to try for NATS whilst my university applications were being processed. A job offer came before the university offers so I took that.

Now almost 5 years later I have no regrets. I have enough time off work that I can still indulge in the university lifestyle with my mates for much of the year and whilst many of them are now on the dole with frankly useless degrees and a heap of debt, I'm bringing in a rather sizeable salary for my age.

I'll go against the grain and suggest having a go at joining NATS first. The younger folk seem to have a much easier time when training and should you not make the grade, you'll still be young enough to go to university and indebt yourself. If you do make the grade, you'll still have enough time off work to enjoy the finer parts of university social life without the baggage that goes with it.

I would agree with Scuzi. I applied to NATS when everyone else in my year group was applying to university. Twelve years later, some of them are still not established in a career, nor do they really know what they want to do. That's not a criticism by the way.

Why not apply now? If you get in, great. If not, then you could go to university, and apply when you gain your degree.

I have no regrets about not going to university at all.

I was in the same position as you some years ago too. Personally (with hindsight), I don't think I was mature enough to join NATS straight out of school (I would also have had to take a gap year as I went to Uni when I was 17).

I think it really depends on how you feel you would be suited for the course now or later - I definitely wanted to do ATC when I was at school but think I'm better prepared and experienced now after spending time at uni (I've got the 'getting paralytically drunk' phase out of my system, and I'm fine with intense studying courses).

As for me, I've got a MChem in Chemistry and a PhD too...

I have to agree with Dr Paperclips - I left school as an immature 17 year old and I was barely sensible enough to put in the effort to get through Bournemouth after the BEng. Uni was great, I did get some otherwise unachievable life experiences and I got myself (a pretty useless) degree, but without it I doubt that I'd be a controller now. I would have given CATC a half-hearted go and then had to find a new path - yeah Uni could have been an option, but then NATS don't give you a second chance.

I have to agree with Gonzo too - he didn't bother with all that getting in to debt malarky, he knew what he wanted to do and did it. He has 3/4 years more paying in to the pension pot (for what its worth) and 3/4 years more during career at the top of the pay scale (i.e. he will earn about £1/3 million more than someone who went to Uni first :eek: ). What would he have gained from a degree? Will he get to a point where those letters behind his name would make a difference? I doubt it.

I did it slightly differently by applying during my second year at Uni, then deciding I may as well do those extra months to complete the degree, so I got NATS to defer my entry to allow this. That did take the heat of me during my finals when I didn't have worry about job hunting during the recession of the 90s.

So ask yourself honestly, how mature are you? Could you give it your best shot? Could you cope with being away from home and learning to feeding yourself at the same time as continually being assessed on one of the most demanding things you will ever have to do? If so then go for it!

Do what you want the most. That way there won´t be regrets. If you apply now and succeed, great, if you fail you can always go to University. If you go now to Uni and then decide to apply you will have a stronger background and more experience whatever happens with your application.
Down here in Spain we´re not that lucky, since a degree is one of the requirements, if you want to apply..

I entered directly from school without going to uni.
It has paid big dividends along the way. I have always been quite young for my grade, and don't forget, you are paid for training with NATS.
I also have 3 children at university, they are not particularly interested in ATC, and it costs a fortune. At least 8000 pounds per year each (one is 12000!).
What will you do with a geography degree? A degree does not guarantee a job in this economic climate.
My advice is to apply. What have you got to lose? You can always get into university, in fact the older you are the easier it becomes. There is an age limit for NATS.
If, down the line, you decide you still want to study for a degree there is always the Open University. You would not be the first NATS employee to obtain a degree from there.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
flowman

Bit of a mixed bag of replies here. I didn't apply to Nats until after I had finished my degree(also geography),so I didn't have to make the choice between uni or work. With hindsight, if I had joined Nats at 18 years old then I doubt I would be a controller today. The college course and subsequent training at unit are intensive and I would have been far too immature to cope. Uni was brilliant fun, and got a fair bit of silliness and immaturity out of my system before I hit the workplace.It's a tough call for you. My advice would be to go down the uni route first and have some fun along the way,although I can also see the attraction of getting a good job at a young age. Good luck:ok:

A couple of things to consider:

The course is not easy and validation is by no means certain (far from it) if you get through the selection process and join the college. Being keen and putting in lots of work will not help if you just don't have the aptitude.

If you join NATS and find that you fail to validate 3 or 4 years down the line what will you do? Will you really feel like going back to uni after 3 or 4 years of intensive learning... especially as you will have been on a wage with NATS and you will have to revert to being an impoverished student again (or should I say, more impoverished).

If you go to uni first, you will find that (in most cases) you will emerge a slightly more mature and rounder person - this will hold you in good stead for any ATC course. Waiting those extra 3 years will not make you lose any aptitude with regards to the selection tests. Of course, being more mature will not guarantee sucess, but it will help when times are tough.

Finally, forget ATC for a moment... just what do you envisage doing with a BA in Geography? Is it a degree you have chosen with a specific aim in mind?

If yes, I would be inclined to got to uni first, get your degree, then try ATC. At least then you will have a fallback plan.

If not, I would consider all the advice on this thread. You do not need a degree to suceed in ATC - NATS alone is littered with examples of this fact.

Good Luck :ok:

And another thing: -

I forgot to mention that there were plenty of 18 year olds on my CATC course and they did fine. Better than fine. The most able person I remember training with had not finished A levels (due to lack of interest) but sailed through training and validation. Others without further education have now progressed (?) to management and other technical departments. Missing the years in academia didn't seem to hamper any careers.

If you go to Uni first which is what I did, I wouldnt worry about the debt side of things to much. I was over £13k in debt when i left 6 years ago this summer and as of next month will have paid it all off.... and life has hardly been a struggle doing that.
I applied and got in at 17 and turned it down. Spent a year out travelling a little, followed by 3 years at uni for the sole purpose of drinking, having no responsibilities, playing Nintendo and enjoying a second home under a table in the student union.... which is something that I wouldnt change for earning a few grand extra a year. I reapplied and went through it all in my 2nd year at uni and got in again with a start date 4 months after i finished uni.
Training for ATC is bloody hard, so if you want a few years to basically dick about go to uni..... dont jut think of the money. If you get into NATS and validate you will have enough of that, its about the experiences and if thats what you want then go for it.
If you are an ATCO for 30 years.... no harm in waiting 3 to have a little fun while you have no job to loose if you turn up wasted, something that seemed tolerated at uni but not at CATC http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
Whatever you choose, choose it for yourself, not what any of us on here say..... just dont have any regrets and you know you made the right decision.

Bloody hell, Privatesandwiches - you're an ATCO?? What with your PPRuNe name, I thought you were an Aramark caterer :E

I'm another example of not getting a degree before becoming an ATCO. I lost count of the amount of people on my course (Course no.83, yep, I'm an old bugger now) who had degrees and ended up out on their ear during the training phase. I started when I was 21 after spending three years fannying around working in a pub. Do what you feel is right for you, having a degree won't hurt, but it won't necessarily help.

Anyhoo, my best mate at school went to uni and got his degree in Geography. He's a foreman for a construction company now (Whitemountain/Lagan Group, the ones who do a lot of the runway re-surfacing in the UK), but he started off with them mixing concrete. He's been at it as long as I've been an ATCO and earns half of what I do. Mind you, if it's a Geography degree that you really want............

I agree with several of the previous posters that maturity is probably one of the main things to consider.

I applied to Eurocontrol at age 17, was admitted and started just after my 18th birthday. Looking back on it I was absolutely too immature back then. I'm one of the unfortunate ones who failed during training, though I was very keen to become an ATCO. And maturity had a good deal to do with that failure. I will of course never know for certain if I would have succeeded had I waited a few years and gotten a degree first. But I am sure that some more "life experience" would have helped a lot.

Of course it may be different for you; you're the only one who can decide about that I'm afraid! :sad:

Anyway, whatever your choice will be, make sure to go for it for the full 100% and more. Good luck!

Hi,
Firstly i agree with all the posts above. At the end of the day its your choice, and actually theres no reason you could do it either way around depending on success at uni or selection.

I ended up on Scuzi's course (never been the same since), unlike him i went the uni route first (BSc Hons Applied Biology). With hindsight i wish i'd hadn't bothered with uni, as i went to NATS college 2 months after finishing my degree (at the time my NATS application process took 2+years). And i have the associated debt that follows :ugh: . The taxman takes an extra £300+ a month out my salary now for that.

If you are highly motivated and willing to put in the hard work at NATS college, i would recommend getting your application in now.

If you have any questions at all just shout!

I am a one man catering company only..... although aramark is probably better organised than NATS at present. It is a shame that our friend Ernie did not get relocation... I miss his over eager portion sizes and free food!!!!
Speaking of catering, i get to try the culinary delights of Barron mansions soon enough....:E

Decisions, decisions, decisions! Thanks for you all your replies, like someone said, there are many mixed attitudes!
Its a risk, if i did get through 1st time and i took it and then i failed to validate a few years along the line then it would be a bit **** wouldnt it! Uni is probably the best thing to do 1st. As said in this thread, it would probably get that 'go out and get pissed' syndrome out of my system and then be able to settle down and start my career knowing that i was able to meet some fantastic people and achieve a degree.
So yes, i will apply in March, if i get through i will decide from that. If not, ive still got the degree to go and do and have fun and try again afterwards (y).
Thanks

Privatesandwiches has just given away the identity of a PPRuNe poster on here - admittedly it is himself, but will he get his posts pulled and a ticking off?

Naughty boy, enjoy the delights of corporate food - though you will probably be fed a load of sh!t, as is management style...

I'll have a Bacon sarnie with brown sauce please Private, bring it in tomorrow on your first morning, I'm on nights.

Ta :ok:

What the hell are you going to do with a Geography degree ?

trying to find his way in life...

You'll be able to give the pilots first hand information on regions prone to fog.

Definately NATS is my suggestion. That's what I did and it paid off. :)

This is a good thread, with many very valid points.

Another one to consider is that once you valdate (lets say on radar) well, you're there for he next 30-35 years of your life! And aside from moving around from one facility to another, it's really the same thing whereever you go. Don't get me wrong. I'm passionate about my career and love every minute of it, but I didn't start at 17.

So all this to say that it might be nice to spend a few years at the tender age of 18 to 21 or so doing other stuff, be it uni or whatever.

I tried uni then ATC and I wouldn't do it any differently. Being an ATCO is a rewarding and challenging job, but the student lifestyle is amazing fun. You will come out of it with a ton of debt but that shifts fairly quickly once you start earning (last loan repayment this month = woohoo).

Any other failed biologists end up as ATCOs?

I am not talking from a NATS employee position here as I am in my second year at Loughborough University.

I was in the same boat when my A Levels were wrapping up, do i apply or not? I didn't and I don't regret it at all because I still have plenty of opportunities to apply in the future.

There is no way I was mature enough when leaving school. Pratting about with mates in our 1.2l Fiestas and drinking way too much too often (which I still do now). I've met a great bunch of mates at University and I have learnt how to study when the temptation of sitting around is always looming.

I say go to Uni it's been the best time of my life so far and you won't be any worse off for doing it. The personal experience can only lead you to being a more well rounded person.

Cheers Dom

I'd say go to university first. I found university a really rewarding experience and you have far more opportunities to 'broaden your horizons' than you would getting tied down to a fairly unflexible career path at a young age.

Putting the financial debate aside, the chance of exchange years abroad, long summer holidays to do what you wish (travel, charity work etc...), the wide circle of friends you'll make who will end up in a diverse range of careers, etc etc etc..... are all opportunites you will get if you choose to go to university.

The fact your asking the question suggests your not completely 100% sure you want to start a career as an ATCO at this point and your curious to experience university life- so have both and go to university first!

Also, you can get through university with minimal debt if your careful with your money- don't blow your student loan on drink and rubbish- get a part-time job to pay for this (which will again widen your appreciation of other career paths), and if you are able to invest your student loan do it (you won't get a chance of a financial loan on these sort of terms ever again and your going to have to borrow money at some point in your life!).

Anyway, I'm preaching a bit now but hey, that's the path I took and I wouldn't change it for the world!

Thanks for all the replies! I turned 18 last wednesday and ive applied. ive got the documents for stage 1 in front of me as well.

The things im worried about, doing ATC is being able to make friends with people my own age. Not being able to prat around.

(Ive drunk everyday since wednesday, pretty heavily and im going out AGAIN tonight! NOT good, my liver will be pickled!)

I wont be able to go out as often if i go straight to ATC. however, i will be able to earn money straight away, do something ive wanted to do for years and not have £20k+ of debt. It was only the other day i heard on the news that unis are about to be able to choose their own pricing on tuition fees with debts £30k+ soon.

I need people to persuade me to do it, as at the moment people are telling me to go to uni. Is there anyone who started at 18?

Ross, you're going to find lots of people that will tell you it's fine to do ATC without Uni and then you'll find lots of people who tell you to go to Uni first.

The point is that it can only be your decision. If you have any nagging doubts, then don't get into ATC yet. I personally didn't get into ATC until I was 25 so I'd had a bit of freedom before hand, so I was ready to get stuck in. I did apply when I was 18, but decided against it and never went through the process. I was worried about being tied down to the same job and possibly the same company for 40 odd years. Having that bit of freedom before and time to do what I wanted meant a lot.

I love the job now and can't think of anything else I'd rather do, but if I'd gone straight into it then I might well be getting itchy feet.

Anyway, as I said, others will disagree and advocate going straight into it at 18. The choice is up to you, but make sure you feel as sure as you can be.

Good luck with the decision!

Hey, just to let you know, as you've already sorted it out, your fees won't increase if this does happen. I started at uni the year before top-up fees came in, I'm about to finish my 4th year now, and I'm still on the old fees(~1100/year). The top up fees(about 3000/y) only apply to people who came in the next year. I'm not in ATC yet, but I'd suggest university, but perhaps you're much more mature than I was when I was 18 :).

So many testimonies. I went to university first since I had no clue what I wanted at the time. In retrospect I wonder if I would have had the maturity for NATS at 18 (some might say now :E). University was one of the most incredible, fun, enlightening and educating (well, duh) experiences of my life. It was also VERY expensive. Personally, it was worth every penny but not all experiences are the same.

My advice would be to do things like university, backpacking etc while you're young and worry about the career (a little) later. 18 years old and the world at your feet. Take a look at a little of it before you choose your place.

My caveat advice would be make the decisions that feel right to you. Have no regrets. When something goes wrong simply make a new decision and put it down to experience.

Exeter University Surf Club rules!

West country, lah lah lah, west country, lah lah lah!

University including ATC
 

Well..if you were in some other countries (such as France, Turkey, USA, etc.) you would be able to go to a university providing B.Sc. + ATC license approved by civil aviation authorities. Therefore, you would realize both interests at the same moment.

I hear they have nice cider to

Mate, going by that quote I would go to Uni first, it'll suit the lifestyle you currently want perfectly (not a criticism, we all, well most of us, have been there!). When you've got a degree and got the partying and boozing out of your system you will be ready to move on into a career. Bit more mature, bit better equipped for the studying that you'll face etc etc.
As a side note, I would defo recommend that you stick with NATS. I went down to Swanick a few months back to do a TRUCE day and I have to say had a thoroughly enjoyable day, learnt a lot, increased my admiration for the guys and girls that do it for a job ten fold from already stratisferic levels and personally would give up my seat in the flightdeck in a heartbeat to go to Air Traffic. An infinately better working environment and thoroughly more enjoyable!