Thats a bit harsh Roffa, I'm sure manch would accept it if LAC was only downgraded to band 4 !! :ok:

AS CTC slime - NO I am not 'happy'. I work longer hours than any NATS ATCO I have known, the work is damded difficult and I am treated like $&*t. On top of that we get slagged off by the people that we work to help! A lkot of CTC people work very hard - more than a comfortouble amount kiss ass with a finesse that I have not seen before, and I am ex mil!!! :suspect:

Minesapint,
Bet you weren't working at 2am Christmas morning,or New Year's day.:hmm:
I'm curious to what you get paid.From what I see some ATCO CTC types are on mega buck compared with Band 2 units,that have a pocket full of ratings and validations.If you aren't an ATCO or an engineer,then be quiet.
I work very close to what is legally allowed,with frequent night shifts as well.I know that on every shift I could easily kill 500+ people,and not just a Starbucks machine.If you don't like your CTC number,then go somewhere else,or if you have an ATC licence see what the real world is like out in Band 2 land.:}

;)Now now! I'm sure that if anyone who slags off CTC staff bothered to find out what people who work there did then you wouldn't be slagged off. You just have to accept that systems are planned, replaced and maintained by little magic fairies. The same ones who do airspace planning and interface with European and other ANSP's. Who do project planning and financing. Who test the NERC system, NAS, NODE and all the other software builds. Who run the simulators. Who do pay and allowances. I've only touched the surface of the magic fairy kingdom so apologies to all the other departments whose non existence and Starbucks slurping (when they're not off attending million pound away days and glittering fancy balls) makes no contribution towards the safe and successful running of our business (ugh, filthy word, how can ATC be a business! Its not Tesco's).
Know your place Mr pint and remember its always only the depth that varies ;)


BD

throw a dyce, thats a bit harsh telling someone to be quiet, its a forum and he's just as entitled to sound off as you or I.

I had to laugh when you told him if he doesnt like it to do something else, then in the next breath you moan about your banding! Well if you don't like it... do something about it! I hear that due to a cock up somewhere there is a shortfall of new approach persons for TC throughout 2009. Come join us!

But then he doesn't get UHP (or if non operational NOS) for working Unsocial Hours.
And take a pay cut? No fear! ;)

BD

Beaver liquor,
I might just do that.Probably couldn't be released until 2020,because the same cock-up affects us as well.:D

Here we go again, seconds away, round 883 :rolleyes:

Why do you insist on banging on about UHP as if its some sort of bonus that we get just for being ATCOs?? We get it for a reason...as somebody else said, I bet you weren't in on Xmas Day/Boxing Day or New Years Day...come to think of it, 2 weeks off was it until jan 5th? Just like Mr Barron eh?
Instead of banging on ad nauseam about UHP all the time, if you want it so much, may I suggest you get a position that is entitled to it? And don't moan about how there aren't any positions available to you that are entitled to UHP....we could use a 24hr Starbucks facility.:}:}:}:}:}

beaver liquor wrote:-

Now that's quite funny! There is a bloke who has meant to becoming to our unit from Dyce's for years now. In fact it has been that long, I'm not sure if there actually is someone or if it's just an urban myth.

Precisely my point! Why bang on about being at 2am or xmas etc. when there is financial reward for doing so?

BD

Less hassle on the roads too! :p

Is it only the atcos who managed to pull off NOS or did any other grades manage to pull that particular fast one?

Only Prospect negotiated it for ATCO grades, no other grade receives it.

BD

I would like to say I am delighted with NATS, but then I retired 16 months ago. Interesting discussions . . . . ;)

As a fellow retiree perhaps I shouldn't comment but when i joined NATS all those years ago what a happy place it was with excellent Terms and conditions of employment. Privatisation happened and well anyone with half a brain cell knew that they would be eroded. I see even now they have been further eroded.
However before folks go around demanding 4% pay rises perhaps they should switch the news on and see all of those folks losing their jobs and homes and even taking pay cuts just to try to keep in work.
It isn't the NATS it was say even 6 years ago but as T&Cs go it isn't half bad, good pay even in the lower banded pay units ( yes i know the banding isn't fair) , good leave entitlement, sickness and as I found a good ill health retirement policy ( I hope you have kept that in all the pension negotiations)

Take away all the blessed politics as well and the actual job of controlling is superb. As I hear of more and more of my friends losing their jobs or with a real threat of redundancy over their heads I guess NATS ATCOs do OK

I was at a NYE party which had a number of airline folk at, all most of them hoped for was that they would still have a job this time next year

I`d like to say I am happy with NATS, but I would be lying.
Nats, and their predecessors, have made four basic mistakes.

1, Station grading.
2, ATCO2 posting policy.
3,Pension policy.
4, Vast overmanning, except on the shopfloor, and the "room nextdoor".

Our unit IS divided. There are those who still belive it is best to keep our powder dry, and those who have to hope RB`s successor will honour the pension "agreement " for the next 15 years.

Yet there are those who continue doing overtime, keeping an undermanned ops room going, and even some who sell their leave!

The job pays quite well, is often cracking work, the people alongside you are brill.
Its just there are not enough of them, so we "have to make do".

Rant over, time for my cocoa and slippers.....

Bitter and Twisted, and still in exile.

Hooligan Bill,
No he's real alright.I don't think he'll be heading your way soon either,as we have several part valids who can't get fully trained,because of the increased night manning.That's before losing people to the sandpit,retirements etc..
It's happened before but people yote with their feet.Nats and Prospect are not prepared to improve things,so if they get better deals off they go.Yeah I could apply but I think I'll be retired by the time I could get out.If any more leave for sunnier climes then that will cause big problems.:hmm:

Mixmastermike...unfortunately you've been shafted with your pension before you even start, as the final salary scheme is closed as of end March. Something in the RAF you still get...but point taken on working conditions. Its still a good company to work for. What you may recognise is rapid changes sweeping in. Pension terms changed and final salary scheme closed. Job losses and cuts sweeping in over next few years.(atcos at present untouched)Shortages of staff are apparent in certain areas of the company and does affect moral and of course workload, some are working stupid hours without any return. Banding, postings even a broken starbucks machine.:E.list is endless. . . but what also the colleagues, which are most valuable to the company and who we all rely on are getting sick of the spin that gets fed down our throats by the likes of RB.:mad:

:D:D

Is that all? I guess with all of those helicopters around you would have to have a really bad day to get anywhere near 500.;)

OK 300 if you're counting.Some of us work in the west wing and talk to planks.I stop counting after 1.:cool:
The helis and oil platforms are quite good at destroying themselves without help from me.:uhoh: