DTY/LKS...that was exactly my point. I completely agree that we should be pushing for RPI as a minimum, partuclarly when money is being wasted left, right and centre on completely pointless initiatives like Vision 2011 or, as Kinglouis & intherealworld say, other cr*p that we could do without.

DTY/LKS

I did actually mention in my post the SEP07 RPI, however I actually think it is the AUG07 RPI which was used, which is published mid September.

RPI minimum pensionable increase, plus a further 1% (pensionable or not to be decided) and for NATS to stop wasting money elsewhere is definitely the way forward.

THE END:)

so the general feeling is RPI +1%... pensionable or not.
anyone on here in the union????

but would the union even ask for that much???
doubtful.
i bet we get some crap 2% offer to vote on with a little note about 'its going to save our pensions'...... the union needs to aim very high and tell 'em that we wont be taking a watered down offer. the amount of money they waste is astronomical and i hear now we have targets to meet next year for validations..... utter crap.
i hope the union has a big set of balls and a huge spine on this one..... we all need to stick together and make management realise they cant take the piss out of us and go on rewarding eachother with lavish bonuses, award nights etc etc.... you wouldnt have seen this before ppp...
lets see what the first offer will be. anyone any idea when thats likely to be??

I trust your trade union is aware of the cost that North Development has cost NATS so far, with no sign of any implementation by March 2009?

Consultation (or a lack of response to concerns) has not gone down too well in my neck of the 'woods'!

If a company wants to shell out £$ million on a project, surely that has to deliver results on time or is NATS just a 'gravy train'? ($, my keyboard is four...kd).

Anyway, good luck with your pay claim. Hopefully this winter won't see your client/income base drop too much as airlines downsize, merge and go iti's up?

and Mr Barrons salary:
contrary to my own comments regarding using the NATS forum

2007:
Basic: £350k
Benefits: £66k
Performance related pay: £157k
Total: £573k

2008:
Basic: £400k (+£50k, +14.3% over 2007)
Benefits: £66k (0 increase over 2007)
Performance related pay: £180k (+£23k, +14.6%)
Total: £646k (+£73k, +12.7%)


...and that's just over one year people. All from NATS' own annual reports available to all and sundry

No they don't! But they do want to change the pension for new recruits - quite a different thing, and rapidly becoming the UK industry 'norm' (realistically, something from which NATS cannot remain immune).

But, as for an RPI + 1% pay award from January 2009, on the basis that traffic is still increasing (at least according to the Company's own Corporate Communications Department and its frequent posts on the NATS intranet...) then arguably, controllers' productivity has also increased and therefore, the pay rise should reflect this achievement.

The fact that an increasing number of aeroplanes might be flying around with less than break-even load factors is irrelevant to the ATC activity and effort required to safely control and separate these aircraft. :hmm: :rolleyes:

and as we have banged on about in earlier threads, by giving newer recruits the $hitti£r deals we buid up resentment, then a few years down the line, when we get outnumbered by the newbies and our own fund doesn't have enough money coming into sustain itself..... we'll all get it in the neck. Nice :\

RPI + 1% or 2% sounds very reasonable compared to Paul Barron’s reported 3 x RPI rise of last year.

Whether the union will ask for it is another matter, they are in my opinion too understanding of the problems faced by NATS’ management.

Paul Barron needs to start understanding his staff’s problems – we are being hit with 35% increases in fuel costs and that is going to feed into the cost of every other thing we buy.

Nobody knows just how far the RPI will climb. Certainly this would be the worst time possible to be locked into a 3 year deal not linked to RPI + n%

Though that is perhaps slightly easier to cope with on a NATS atco salary rather than a national average salary.

I'm not saying we shouldn't get or deserve a pay rise, but a sense of perspective and reality is needed rather than some of the more fanciful suggestions being bandied about here.

From someone who works for Notwork Fail in a similar safety critical industry. The RMT played a reasonable hand this year and we got RPI + and a 2 year deal; mind you our pension contributions are going to rise to about 13% due to various in-house restructurings and take-backs after the fiscal farce of "privitisation". As a taxpayer and contributor to the good guys n gals through flying far too often to see the family in distant lands I believe that you lot deserve everything you can get your paws on, and don't forget the longer you hold out the nicer the backpay sum will be....:ok:

o/t: Some of us unwashed boysngirls who make no noise maybe paying a few visits shortly to the delights of ATC as NR has decided that our handeovers and comms are not good enuff, like, and must be of "ATC standard". a shock awaits methinks.

back o/t: best of luck.

If Mr Barron is worth 12% plus then maybe we should start negotiating around this figure? Ok we all know we are not going to be getting anywhere near this amount, but if we aim high to start with then "compromise" with a lower increase!

:D

couldnt agree more.... if we start high we can then negotiate.
as for having to cope with living in the current economical climate on a so called 'average salary', if i didnt want a well paid job, i will go and get a £20k a year job and do bugger all every day. are we meant to settle for less than we should get just because we get paid more than most for a job that most havent the aptitude or balls to do? this argument comes up every now and again that we dont really need the money etc.... its not about what we already get, its the big picture and the long term effects. if in the many years to come the company know then can bend us over whenever they like as the union is to week to play hardball.... say 'goodbye pensions and current T&C's'

Apply the maxim of a very learned ex-colleague of mine when negotiating - Ask for twice what you want and settle for half.

Roffa being on a good salary didn't stop Paul Barron receiving a reported 3 x RPI increase last year. To expect an RPI + n% deal is not a fanciful suggestion it should be are absolute minimum starting point.

Why not give the units, with the biggest rises in traffic over the last 3 years the biggest pay rise.If performance related pay is good enough for PB then the staff should get the same.:E

The last 2 paydeals have been sold to us by reps as "we should accept and keep our powder dry for the pension fight"!!!!!!
These same reps are now (mostly) promoted!
Nests have been feathered so who cares anymore?

well then we keep saying NO until they get their fingers out.
if its not done by a date we notify the company of, they can have back my extra freebie validations etc.... and then lets see who comes on hands and knees asking for our help.

Vercingetorix some might consider that to be corruption.

"They" are you. It's your union.

Once you've stuck their £15 up their arse what are you going to do, go to PB and try and negotiate your own rise? That's why management must piss themselves laughing much of the time, nothing to do with the union reps (who I have rather a lot of respect for for taking on the somewhat thankless task of being an atco rep) but rather the fact they read quality stuff like this on PPRuNe.

Prospect and it's predecessors have on the whole done a pretty good job in the 25 plus years I've been a member and occasional rep. No strikes in my time and yet my salary has over that period outstripped inflation, top earning ATCO 2s are now hitting six figures plus and my working conditions aren't exactly onerous. Yup, they can stuff that record up their arse :rolleyes:

Lets go and demand a totally unrealistic pay rise at a time our customers, the ones who pay us for our services, are contracting and cutting costs quite severely. That's logical.

I'm all for picking a fight over the pension but in the current economic climate to go looking for large single or double digit pay rises is ludicrous unless you can find some way of paying for them via efficiences. Any (sensible) ideas? You won't get anything for nothing.

Otherwise, imo, you're wasting your time. The industry can barely afford to function at the moment and we are not immune from these issues. PB's own package is irrelevant in this discussion, if that's what he negotiated when he joined then so be it. It's not an indication of what I or we should expect to match.