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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
(Post 10234299)
To save me from reading over the last 6 months worth of posts for the third time, I have some questions I am hoping to have answered:
1. I've heard of some "pre-course learning material" you're expected to complete prior to training. What does this involve and how long should you expect to dedicate to it (I only ask as I may need to cancel a trip I have planned leading up to the course). 2. I've heard of some form of "verification test" during the assessment day. Does this involved resitting the SHL test or is it just the cognitive testing/simulator exercise we are expected to complete at the assessment centre? 3. Is the OPQ now conducted at the assessment centre or was it scrapped entirely from the application process? 4. Is the role for En Route controlling more autonomous, whereas Tower is more focussed to team work? 5. If you ended up on the Tower course, are you expected to slog away for a few years in a less desirable location rather than near a major city? Paying one's dues, more or less? 6. How many people are generally on each course? ie. what is the instructor to trainee ratio like? 7. What might be some of the reasons people fail during initial and field training? What might be some of the reasons people leave the profession early on? They may seem like some odd questions, but I am trying to fill in some gaps with the research I have already done. :) Thanks! |
6. Not sure how big the courses are at the moment, but in enroute they've varied from 8-16 people over the last few years. There is usually one instructor between two students during the actual simulation exercises (the sims are in pairs of consoles), with occasional bonus one-on-one available as instructor resources allow. At significant points - scheduled progress evaluations, or in the lead-up to exams or where extra support is necessary - one-on-one instruction is usually available.
7. You need to successfully pass 'milestone' assessments, which are practical tests in the simulator, at the end of each phase in order to progress to the next one. If you are unsuccessful, you should get another go, after targeted additional training to address whatever issues were identified the first time round. If you are unsuccessful the second time, you go "under training review" and may or may not get back-coursed for another shot. Sometimes it's an attitude problem that brings people to this point, sometimes it's a technical deficiency and sometimes it's just clear they don't "get it". |
Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
(Post 10234299)
To save me from reading over the last 6 months worth of posts for the third time, I have some questions I am hoping to have answered:
1. I've heard of some "pre-course learning material" you're expected to complete prior to training. What does this involve and how long should you expect to dedicate to it (I only ask as I may need to cancel a trip I have planned leading up to the course). 2. I've heard of some form of "verification test" during the assessment day. Does this involved resitting the SHL test or is it just the cognitive testing/simulator exercise we are expected to complete at the assessment centre? 3. Is the OPQ now conducted at the assessment centre or was it scrapped entirely from the application process? 4. Is the role for En Route controlling more autonomous, whereas Tower is more focussed to team work? 5. If you ended up on the Tower course, are you expected to slog away for a few years in a less desirable location rather than near a major city? Paying one's dues, more or less? 6. How many people are generally on each course? ie. what is the instructor to trainee ratio like? 7. What might be some of the reasons people fail during initial and field training? What might be some of the reasons people leave the profession early on? They may seem like some odd questions, but I am trying to fill in some gaps with the research I have already done. :) Thanks! 4. Enroute and tower both have aspects of autonomy about them and both require a lot of teamwork. It also all depends on the tower/sector/unit where you work as they are all unique. 5. It all comes down to resourcing needs and ability demonstrated at the academy. If there’s a current need for trainees at big city towers and you’ve had good results through the radar tower module there’s nothing to stop an Abinitio ending up at mel/syd etc.. but often the staffing needs are at regional towers and it’s easier to post a new trainee there than it is to take an operational controller off another roster, pay transfer costs and retrain them at an outback procedural tower. I think during the academy training that tower trainees are asked their preferences for a posting.. sometimes they get them, often they don’t. On the Flipside, usually after 2 or so years at a less desirable tower you’re generally in a pretty good position to put your hand up for a transfer to the tower of your choice. 6. When I was on course it was 8 per enroute course, 4 per tower course. 7. Getting through the training is hard work. You need a fair bit of motivation and drive and you also need a thick skin because there are times when it feels like you’re getting nowhere.. I’ve seen people fall over because of huge holes in their theoretical knowledge/understanding. Sometimes this is due to lack of effort, and sometimes it’s just due to overload of information or an inability to really understand the concepts. Ive also seen people who breeze through the theory, always have the right answer in discussions.. but then you put them in the sim or in front of live traffic and they can’t process what’s happening either due to pressure, or a lack of the natural perception skills necessary to do the job. Some people get through the academy without a hitch and then hit the real world and realise that they aren’t suited to the environment (shiftwork, required flexibility, group dynamics, politics etc) and give it up on their own accord. most that get through the training end up in a career they enjoy and are happy to endure all the above though because the good far outweighs the bad. |
I'll add my 2c worth (FWIW I'm well towards the other end of my career):
7. ATC is a complex job in that you need to perform reasonably well across a range of skills, consistently. Whether you can pull them all together to a high enough standard and consistently enough is what's tested in the sim - whether you've "got it" or not. Yes, training helps to an extent but mostly it's from within. As Whispr says you need to put in the hard yards memorising standards, etc. as well. Listen to the instructors, particularly in the field. Listen to other controllers giving tips. Yes you need self-confidence but it needs to be tempered - they're telling you these things for a reason. I've seen trainees go down for no other reason than over-confidence. Occasionally a trainee can't abstract themselves from the number of lives they're dealing with so find it too stressful. Be aware that gaining a rating isn't the end - you need to keep learning and showing improvement to retain the rating. Most people naturally do but occasionally not. ATC isn't the job for everyone and as Whispr says the reality sometimes just doesn't work with personal/family circumstances or priorities. You'll miss out on kid's birthdays, Christmas dinner, family events, gatherings with friends. There will be bad days during the training (and occasionally on the job) but you just have to push on or you will get left behind. Learn from them but don't dwell on them - ATC is a confidence "game" and if your head isn't in the right place no amount of ability will help. If you can overcome/cope with all that it's a great job. |
Training is a long, hard and relentless but being a well-rounded and motivated individual will stand you in good stead - not enough on it's own to get you through the training but a good start.
I don't mean to make it sound like a real downer because it's not. You'll hopefully enjoy the group camaraderie and form lifelong friendships. Just that it is tough. Maybe I'd better not mention the historic pass rate........:eek: FWIW there are signs that the current selection process is doing a good job. |
Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
(Post 10237395)
No stress! I think it's good for me, or anyone else reading for that matter, to know that getting a letter of offer from Airservices doesn't guarantee us a career as an ATC, and knowing that many do fail during training will only act as a constant reminder to work harder each day.
One more question though; I remember another user ("parishiltons"??) mentioning about the fatigue risk management system (FRMS) which is part of the organisation's safety management system (SMS). The Airservices' website also mentions about free gym membership and yoga lessons. Apart from exercise and a healthy diet, what else can be done to deal with the stress/pressure of the role and dealing with rotating shifts? In particular, what is taught to the candidates during training? (hoping I won't be told to just jump on to the wild turkey and marlboros...) |
One of the young guys I work with who went through the college about 2 years ago says there's a little bit of general stuff on human factors but that's about it. My view is that the actual controlling itself isn't particularly stressful - it's "fight or flight" type stress rather than chronic, so when you walk out the door it doesn't come with you. The only time it follows you is when something goes badly wrong, but hopefully those days are few and far between. The most stressful day I've had at work was being involved in a situation where a VFR flight was stuck on top of cloud and they had to descend through cloud several times due to it getting dark. It lasted over an hour all told and I seriously thought there was a good chance they'd die. Adrenaline and professionalism holds it all together while you're working but I was a wreck once I unplugged - shaking and emotional.
Managing shift work is a challenge. As parishiltons says, you need an understanding and supportive home environment - you aren't following the Mon-Fri 9-5 routine of the rest of your family so there has to be give and take to accommodate it. Doesn't help when the neighbour starts mowing when you're trying to sleep before a night shift though. Getting up at 7am when you have an 11pm finish doesn't necessarily work very well in the long term. |
Is there anyone out there from recent assessment days who would like to PM me with how you think you went and any advice for the day etc?
Thanks in advance for any info. |
Test
Originally Posted by mikewil
(Post 10246945)
Is there anyone out there from recent assessment days who would like to PM me with how you think you went and any advice for the day etc?
Thanks in advance for any info. I’m sitting it next Monday but by pure coincidence I had dinner with one of the guys who wrote the testing last night. He reckons all you’ve got to do is go in there nice and relaxed with a good nights sleep under your belt. You can’t train for it and it’s designed that way, so good luck! Regards, Andrew |
Any news from the people attending the assessment centre this week?
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Hey Vandelayy, I got the boot half way through the day, no interview, so while I was told I'd be contacted to find out whether I was successful, I highly, highly doubt, I'd be given an offer without an interview.
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@msage1993
Id love to reply to your message but it says your inbox is full, any chance you could delete a few old ones? |
Also curious to see how others have done this week
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Has anyone from last weeks assessment heard any news yet?
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Applications are open again
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Originally Posted by hansfalkenhagen
(Post 10269277)
Any news from anyone in regards to what it means whether you are sent home early during the assessment day as opposed to staying longer?
I have heard mixed things of those who are sent home early have failed, but have also heard of many other instances were people felt as though they did badly on the tests/simulations and were asked to stay for an interview (which they felt they went well with) but were still given a "thanks but no thanks" a week or so later? Anyone have any info on this in regards to the current process? Does going home early strictly means you failed, whereas staying for an interview definitely means you passed? The Airservices website has recently removed info on the OPQ and the "behavioural based interview" from the recruitment process section. So perhaps things have changed again recently? |
Hey Guys,
Just dropping a line to see if anyone has just applied for the latest recruiting round - commencing October '18? I myself have and having read previous posts, most questions seem to be covered. Just interested if anyone else is in the same boat as me. Cheers |
Originally Posted by Kia Ora 1
(Post 10285303)
Hey Guys,
Just dropping a line to see if anyone has just applied for the latest recruiting round - commencing October '18? I myself have and having read previous posts, most questions seem to be covered. Just interested if anyone else is in the same boat as me. Cheers |
Originally Posted by DaphB
(Post 10285952)
I have also applied this round :) |
Is anyone able to share if the online tests are similar to those found on the SHL website? Or perhaps the FAA test is a good one to practice?
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You aren't competing for a position as such - it's all about aptitude and meeting standards and it was often painfully obvious when people had been "pre-briefed" on what to expect. FWIW the testing has also changed recently. The point of the "simulator" wasn't simulating an ATC environment but problem solving - it's easier to demonstrate concepts without extraneous detail.
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After attending the assessment centre on the 8th October, I was lucky enough this week to be offered a position as a trainee controller on the en route course starting in March!
Some of the tests etc mentioned previously did come up on the assessment day and of the 10 at the start of the day, I was one of 3 to last the whole day. There were some simulation type tests and some quick response/ multi tasking tests as well as a test like the online one for those who have done it. As frustrating as it is, you can't and don't want to prepare for them. If you come in having prepared for something you thought was going to come up and it is even slightly different, it will affect you negatively. We were told not to share too much basically because it will affect future applicants detrimentally as opposed to keeping it a secret. I desperately wanted to know what to expect but going in with no expectations really helped me and you have plenty of practice runs and time to get used to the format and rules etc. Good luck to all the applicants in the upcoming intake!! |
Originally Posted by Bradley Chamberlain
(Post 10299387)
After attending the assessment centre on the 8th October, I was lucky enough this week to be offered a position as a trainee controller on the en route course starting in March!!!
I did mine on the 10th. The day was a lot of fun though (well, I thought so!) Echoing your sentiments - at one stage the entire group on the day were talking, and everybody I spoke to did the same thing many of us are on here for - frantically searching the internet for ANY information on the assessments, only to see the comments of 'you can't prepare for it'. After we had gone through a few tests we all agreed that while those comments were infuriating at the time, they're completely correct. Get a good night sleep and get there early enough that you don't risk getting stuck in traffic and stressing out. Good luck to everybody applying for the role. |
They reached out in mid-November and did another round of assessment from the June applicants on the Monday (10) and Tuesday (11) just passed; for the March en-route intake. I went on 10/12; there were 7 of us on Monday but I was the only one who made it to the Interview Stage (5 were sent home after lunch) and my references have been contacted by ASA already. I'm not sure how big and how successful the Tuesday group was. Now just waiting for an email/call to advise if I made it through or not.
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Interesting. Well done on getting through so far!
Now, you still need to be patient; even after the reference check it still took some time, might have been a couple of weeks, to receive the notification by email (initially they said end of the week but it took longer). Anxious wait I'm sure! |
Hey guys, congrats to all who have been offered a place on courses next year.
If anyone starting January is looking for a place, there is a room available at a share house 15 mins drive from the airport. You will be sharing with 2 en route students who are about half way through the training. Feel free to message for more details. |
Accommodation
Originally Posted by puddlejumpers2310
(Post 10348541)
Trainees for January '19....two rooms available NOW in awesome digs only for ATC guys and gals. This house has built quite a reputation for housing successful trainees over the years. Located in a quiet, leafy street just minutes from the Academy. Everything included to make your stay easy and stress-free. PM me for more info...PJ.:ok:
I start at Airservices tomorrow (14/1) as an enroute trainee and was just enquiring if there was still a room available? Also I was wondering where abouts the house was located and if any other trainees had contacted you? Thankyou very much in advance and I am quite interested so if you were available for an inspection sometime soon that would be great! Kind regards, Geoff |
Hi I was wondering if anyone here is a RAAF ATC, current or ex?
Or even someone who is going through the recruitment process. Cheers |
Sydney TCU woes
Is anyone else currently being recruited into Syd TCU as experienced controllers? |
Hi,
Can you describe the online test questions you had? Are they very similar to the practice tests at the SHL Direct site? And can anyone share other sites with suitable practice tests that will genuinely help us prepare? After doing those SHL Direct ones a few times I just start to memorise the answers. Thanks |
Originally Posted by skyb1ue
(Post 10484412)
Anybody on here apply for the current opening for trainee controllers?
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A little guidance please !!
Hi everyone ,
Appreciate all your help i can get .. 1. To qualify for the training programme they ask for year 12/ Diploma or Degree. --Is any Diploma issued by a recognized college accepted ? --do they look for the field of study and specially the length of study?? 2. What is the remuneration during training in melbourne ? Please give me figures ? thanx heaps |
Hi guys,
I am busy applying as well, just waiting for my resume to be done. Have no idea what to expect, but hoping to get in. On my way over there from South Africa, so figured I may as well try to get back into aviation while i'm busy turning my world on its head. Does anyone know how long after online assessments the site assessments will be? And how long after that we'll know if we're in or not? It would make my immigration plans easier if I knew for sure where I was going to, i.e. Melbourne or somewhere warmer..;) I have read through the history on here but it seems verrrry variable. Sometimes days, sometimes months. Sachcho, as far as I know the only reason they require a recent qualification is to show that you have the ability to study a large volume of theory work in a set time. I also don't believe that the field of study matters too much, but this is only an assumption. Then as far as remuneration, if I recall correctly I read somewhere that its around AUD$53k per year while training in Melbourne (12-14months), then AUD$73k while practical training at destination facility (3-6months), then AUD$104k once you receive your rating. This is more or less what I remember, not sure of exact figures at all. Good luck for the process! Regards, Gavin |
Originally Posted by Gavin Kukard
(Post 10486784)
Does anyone know how long after online assessments the site assessments will be? And how long after that we'll know if we're in or not? It would make my immigration plans easier if I knew for sure where I was going to, i.e. Melbourne or somewhere warmer..;)
I have read through the history on here but it seems verrrry variable. Sometimes days, sometimes months. |
Originally Posted by pilotwings
(Post 10489054)
Like you said it can be really variable but typically can expect anywhere from a few weeks to 2 or 3 months after your online assessments until the assessment day and then 2 to 3 weeks after that to find out whether you've made the cut.
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ATC waiting period
Hey guys!
First time applying for ATC and just recently sent my application. I'm wondering, do the online tests usually come straight after the deadline or is there a waiting period? Just want to get it over and done with :/ Looking forward to your correspondences! |
Originally Posted by Gavin Kukard
(Post 10489705)
Okay great, do you know how long approximately after online assessments we will know whether we will be invited to site assessment?
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Originally Posted by Maggie Island
(Post 10490130)
2/3 months is generally standard, though you could expect that to increase whenever HRs busy. Out of curiosity - do you already have Permanent Residency?? Yes I have unrestricted permanent residence as of May actually. It was quite a process and a long wait, but the visa came through just a week after applications opened, luckily. :) |
Hi Juzzi,
They said the online tests will be done between the 13th & 16th of June, so starting on Thursday. |
hi
Hi Gavin,
That means we will receive a link or invitation only after 13th. Thanks |
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