MODE S at LACC
 

Perhaps someone knows the answer....

MODE S is now fully up and running at MACC and LTCC. When do you think it will appear at LACC? Or is it in the too difficult pile :ugh:

Considering the state of another programme that should have been implemented by now in ACc, I would have thought it would be a while off yet.

If controllers are slightly reticent on new controller tools, then why should they be happy to train on Mode S?

The 'too difficult box' is not always 'ticked' by non operational staff! Implementation of a new system requires good will from all involved and a bit more of a 'get on and do it' attitude

Mode S at MACC was relatively easy to achieve from technical perspective as the same RDP system already in place and Mode S already used by LTC, as it will be for Prestwick. Unfortunately, the LAC RDP system is different, and not easily upgradeable. However, work is in the pipeline to bring it in sometime soon. CAA DAP already had the request to extend the Mode S airpace outside of the LTMA.

The best things come to those who wait, LAC just has to wait a bit longer!

Don't forget, LAC is served by 7 Mode S radars already, so benefit is already being given, even if you can't get to the DAPS, etc.

Personally i would love to have mode S at LACC. Would make life easier. The quicker the better IMHO.

As for the certain other program there is no reticence on my part to retrain, but what can we do when it keeps falling behind due to software probelms? The "get on and do it" attitude is there but it needs something to be used with and at the moment it is not where it needs to be for us to have confidence in it.

Feb 2010 target date, IP is raised and on its way! That's the best date when everything else is considered.

So, do I understand that TC has lost Mode S following the move south??

no, still have it

Nope, it was all there ready, waiting and working when LTC moved. Even NATS has started to realise going backwards doesn't help.......:}

But En-route don't have it? How bizarre, given that they're so close...

Might be closer but the systems are exactly the same as when TC were at WD i.e. totally incompatible. Will be quite some years until NERL units are all using a single system from both centres.

BD

<<the systems are exactly the same as when TC were at WD i.e. totally incompatible. >>

The words "unbelieveble" and "incredible" come quickly to mind!

NATS also comes to mind

Does anyone know if Manchester Approach/ Director also have Mode S? Cheers.

Take it from me guys, you do not want to transition to a whole new flight data display system and new concept of ops on top of a location change.

Personally, getting TC into Swanwick with the 'legacy' (or whatever they're calling it this week) equipment was a sensible move.

The bigger questions might be:
How long before aircrew get fed up with spy-in-the-cab?
Is it right and proper that a controller might query a pilot's actions or selections.....given that it is unlikely that the controller is qualified on type?
Are we turning ATC into a giant video game?
Do you want a couple of dozen label blocks the size of Greater London to distract you from the prime function of controlling?
Deafening silence from the "regulator" as usual.....this ends up with 50 controllers developing 50 different personal operating regimes...as usual!
P.S. At the moment, if a pilot fails to comply with an instruction or imposed limitation, the fault [if that is the appropriate word] might be identified as a pilot error. If it is the duty of the controller to cross-check or monitor any mode S indicator....then fault might be said to apply equally or partially with the controller. Do you want that?

Not sure I'd describe it as spy-in-the-cab - it only shows MCP selected parameters which are shortly going to become apparent to ATC, once the aircraft carries them out. I'm sure many crews would prefer to have the controller notice a mis-selected ALT and query it, rather than deal with a level bust and associated paperwork. I'm not type rated on anything, but that sure as hell isn't going to stop me checking with a pilot if I've cleared him to a level, and then see he's dialled in a thousand feet lower.

I do agree with you about the size of the data blocks, though; we'll see come next summer if this is going to be a major issue.

As a driver, I much appreciate having my selections monitored via Mode S - it makes life a little bit less stressful to know that there is one more layer of cheese to be penetrated.

Was accordingly surprised to hear MACC inform me this morning that "HON speed profile still applies, ...etc. etc." - when we had 290 prominently displayed on the MCP :suspect:

Or have they taken away your speed readout??? :}

For what its worth the strategy is correct. TMA's (with the biggest level bust problem) first, then area units, the busiest first. Prestwick will open with Mode S so that MACC controllers maintain continuity. The Swanwick displays are a little more difficult to change.

As for 'spy in the cab' I think that notion is ridiculous. Pilots and controllers make errors, and if the systems are capable of pointing these errors our BEFORE there is an incident then that is a very good thing. STCA points out a lack of separation, shall we pull that because its embarrasing??? :ugh:

TC displays/systems: so what would you like TC systems to do? :8

We have to press a button to toggle the speed up on the label, whereas the select level is always shown on the label (and can't be turned off). The controller obviously didn't have it up at the time.

ATCOS seem to love mode S and hopefully it gets rolled out across all units, including approach units, it interesting to see how pilots now feel about controllers now knowing how accurate the pilot is actually doing as we ask...