ATCO Questions
 

Hi everyone, I am new new member and have a few questions about atc.
I am Thinking about applying for atco position.

What are the shift times/hours ?

How busy is night/late shifts ?

I am aware of how busy the controllers are at EGCC during the day and afternoon, but not sure of other times.

can anyone explain what a radar heading is.

Thanks in advance.

Go for it. Best job in the world. apply to Nats first though. Generally work 6 on 4 off at 24 hour units, typically two each of 07/1400, 14/2200, 22/0700.

Depends where you work as to how busy, but I think at Manch they are not particulary busy through the night, will be corrected if I'm wrong though. Expect to be busiest around 5am to 8 ish, then drops off til about midday, then an evening rush.

Radar heading is a heading assigned by a controller, taking the aircraft off its own navigation. Usually given to ensure/achieve separation, and, in Approach to vector for the instrument approach for the runway.

Hi son,

Being an atco is a great career. great pay, great holiday allowance, great shift times, great pension (for now).

We are not all as quiet as EGCC, some sectors are notoriously busy at most times of day.

the general shift patterns are: 2 mornings, 2 afternoons, and 2 nights. due to nights being quiet, many staff are put on to another watch for a couple of "spin" shifts to help out in the afternoon or morning instead of doing nights.

any more questions, just holler

Thanks to both of you for the quick reply, just looking at application form on nats website now. Cheers for explaining about radar heading as well.

The proper answer is "an example of poor phraseology"

It's "Heading" - pure and simple. (the explanation being what RAC/OPS said)

Chilli - don't confuse the guy; the statement by RAC/OPS is perfectly accurate and correct. "Heading" is the compass heading selected by the pilot. If he is on his own navigation it will be the heading to get him to his destination, or next point at which his route changes. A "radar heading" is a heading which the pilot flies when instructed to do so by the air traffic controller. Don't worry about whether the term is strictly right at your stage; just believe what RAC/OPS and I have written!

Come on Manc people bite!! :E

ie
Quote We are not all as quiet as EGCC, some sectors are notoriously busy at most times of day.

Come on Manchester - is there no one willing to argue your case. There was a time when Manchester Centre was very busy at night with mail flights etc. or has all that stopped now?

Hi there

just following the subject of shifts and leave, as someone mentioned on these forums "more time off than you know what to do with it" , how does this translate into reality ?

I have a job offer from NATS (well, a college offer) and there's an annual leave of 28 days, which is similar or maybe just slightly better than most office jobs. Nothing sensational though, and although I presume it goes up with the years, how good does it get ?

The 6 on / 4 off pattern (more correct saying 3 off plus a sleeping day) I guess is more a result of the total hours worked (48 against the normal week of 35 ?) so I wouldn't see it as a generous concession towards ATCOs.

Thanks for clarification

Even with 28(think it does rise but not sure) days holiday, you'll get a lot of time off. You only need to take 6 days to get 2 weeks off so you can almost have a 2 week holiday, 5 times a year - signifcantly better than an office job methinks!!!:ok:

after 6 on 4 off plus full leave entitlement you have pretty much 6 months off in a year, spread out obviously!

High Hopes
on top of your leave entitlement you can add on another 8 days for public holidays which you can take whenever you want. I think I get 40 days leave a year in total. Plenty of time off, ie 12 days leave gives 24 days off.

full leave entitlement in nats is 41 days per calendar year, including 8 days for bank holidays,

High Hopes

The leave entitlement that you are alluding to is for when you are at the college... where you will be working office hours!

Afterwards, you will work shifts... either 6 on 4 off or 6 on 3 off (non 24hr units).

As soon as you join a unit, you will go onto the watch roster. You will then be entitled to 28 days leave plus 8 days BH (36 days leave), rising to 33 days leave plus 8 days bank holiday (41 days leave) on the tenth anniversary of your starting date with NATS.

You will be allocated a month of the year in which your leave will be counted from (i.e. your 'leave year') This is done alphabetically and is just for administrative purposes.

When you first join a unit after the college, you should be told when your leave year runs from (you may already be half way through it by this point), and also how many days you are entitled to until the end of your year. These days will be done on a pro rata basis, depending on how long in the leave year you have to go.

Looking at it simplistically, you are correct when you state that if you count the hours you will do roughly the same as an office worker. For a 30 day month an office worker working 9-5 can expect to work 21 days at 7 hours a day = 147 hours. In the same period, an ATCO on the 10 day pattern will work 18 days = 144 hours.

Another way of looking at it.

Office worker 4 weeks off, works 48 weeks a year, 5 days a week = 240 days, minus 8 days BH = 232 days a year worked

ATCO on 10 day pattern works (365/10) * 6 = 219 days, minus 33 days leave (after 10yrs), minus 8 days BH = 178 days a year worked

All this needs to be further quantified by the fact that on the last 2 days of your cycle you either do nights or spins... if nights, then you sleep for some of it (although you still are away from home)... if you do not get rostered for nights, then you will 'spin' onto another watch for 2 days to supplement their numbers. You can expect (although it is a privelege, not a right) to be sent home earliy on your spins... you will certainly be one of the first out of the door.

So hours wise you ar ecorrect, but that is down to ATCOs working shifts that are 7,8, and 9 hours long. During those days, about 30% of the time you will be on a break.

Having worked all sorts of hours and shifts in different employs, I can assure you that working this shift system and cramming the hours into less days is preferable.... I would rathert attend work an extra hour or 2 a day and end up with an extra 56 days off!!

But High hopes, I am sure you are just asking for clarification, but I do hope that you are not weighing up the job of an ATCO against the job of an office worker based on leave entitlement before you decide which to go for. You have to want to succeed to get through training... a few extra days off will not give you the motivation that you require!!

Good Luck

Nobody should expect to go home early from on a spin, surely that just encourages disappointment and possibly resentment when one is kept?

And to be honest, I cannot remember the last time I, or anyone else, was sent home more than half an hour early on a spin, and that was only because we didn't have a full take up of leave.

This must vary greatly between units, it seems.

"Sent home early on spins"

Probably at MACC or Scottish but not at a busier unit!:}

No, not at all, I am not even an office worker, I was just using it as a general benchmark against standard working hours.
I work in Education and with 11 weeks off + 9 bank holidays there's hardly any job that can give me a better deal in terms of leave.
The ATCO profession should give me something I am more interested in, plus a better salary, while retaining a generous leave entitlement so it's a win win situation for me.

Thanks for taking the time to answer

Gonzo,

Sorry matey, I was going to put somewhere in the reply that what I was writing was very much a broad brush picture... more to get across a more accurate comparison between office workers and ATCOs.

I appreciated that most tower workers (with smaller watches), will not be as flexible wrt 'early gos' (maybe you should have worked harder at school... you may have got area then lol).

Also, I am very much a believer that an 'early go' is a privilege (no matter how I spell that word, it never looks right) and not a right, certain spins do tend to be good for the opportunity... especially in the winter.

There is nothing I hate more than people in the OPs room whingeing about an early go etc. I sometimes think that it would be simpler if we all just stayed for a whole shift... Though by early go, your example of is not too bad in my books

Mancboy,

C'mon man! I know that there are some early goes in LACC, obviously some spins mean that you will be there to the end but one or two of them present an early go opportunity now and then. Does at TC anyway, tho I suppose, as you say

Don't worry mate, my brother's at LACC and never seems to work(!) so I'm aware of the variation! :E

Although a remark was made the other day by the brother and his colleagues that someone they knew somewhere actually had to work for 90 minutes straight!

Incoming!!!!!:}

Anotherthing, I was joking mate.

We are pretty short staffed at Swanwick at the moment too, which you'll find out in the Autumn, plus you can see how busy we are too by plugging in on an ac sector for once.

Gonzo, I spin with your kid and believe me he works, only because he creates work for himself that is!!