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-   -   EGLL Holding Points (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/272060-egll-holding-points.html)

sickBocks 14th Apr 2007 23:44

EGLL Holding Points
 
...okay I get OSTER and HORKA and maybe even LOKKI if it's short for Lockheed, and all the planets/space-related points. Where do ETTIV and MORRA come from? I know I should get out more but I do spend quite a lot of time remote holding in these places these days.

Answers on a postcard

sB :8

ATCO Two 15th Apr 2007 04:26

I believe ETTIV and MORRA alude to the Scottish names of the daughters of a senior BAA Manager.

BobAgg 15th Apr 2007 07:34

Etive and Morar are a couple of Lochs up here in Scotland

ThreadBaron 15th Apr 2007 07:36

Etive Moor in the Western highlands:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...n/278etive.jpg

Not too many dark secrets involved.

spekesoftly 15th Apr 2007 07:38

So no connection with Sod'em and G'MORRA ? :E

Gonzo 15th Apr 2007 08:25

LOKKI = Loch Lochy,

Del Prado 15th Apr 2007 09:37

Etive mor wikipedia link

Thunderbug 15th Apr 2007 10:33

So why have we got scottish lochs at Heathrow?
Lets send LOKKI & ETTIV to EGPH and get some local names.
How about STANZ, EDWAD, WRSBY - Staines, King Edward VI & Wraysbury lochs, i mean reservoirs!
B***** Scots trying to take over the planet!
T'bug :ok:

BOAC 15th Apr 2007 11:17

They'll be for the new Lomond1 SID at LHR.

NeoDude 15th Apr 2007 12:01

Seems like a good excuse to pimp some of my photography...
http://neodude.smugmug.com/photos/142906598-M-2.jpg
More can be seen on My Website. Very reasonable prices on prints btw :ok:

sickBocks 15th Apr 2007 15:09

Ta for clearing that up.
Agree with Thunderbug.. can we have ANSLA, FELTM, and HESTN instead.
American 171 "Gee where the hell is LOBSTER, it isn't on our chart"

evenflow 15th Apr 2007 20:03

MORRA never gets used. ETTIV often gets read back as ACTIVE. OSTER mostly gets read back as OSCAR. Great idea whoever thought of them!!

Max Angle 15th Apr 2007 22:19


Great idea whoever thought of them!!
Particularly as 5 letter designators are supposed to be reserved for airborne use only under ICAO regulations. Hopeless.

FlightDetent 15th Apr 2007 23:20

What's HORKA then? :uhoh: beyond my ken.

spekesoftly 15th Apr 2007 23:24

Never heard of an ORKA UNTER ? ;)

tired 16th Apr 2007 19:56

Slight thread creep, I know, but who named the points on the Medwy P-RNAV procedures for 27L and R, then??? I take it he's not a Man U fan....?! ;)

Spitoon 16th Apr 2007 21:59


MORRA never gets used. ETTIV often gets read back as ACTIVE. OSTER mostly gets read back as OSCAR. Great idea whoever thought of them!!
I thought it was a bit daft naming holding points after things that aircraft are called (however unlikely it is to see an UNTER at LL). Who was it who said "If something can go wrong, it will go wrong"? Never thought of confusion between ETTIV and active. Hope I'm not around when someone thinks they hear "cross active".

Bleedin' stupid! :ugh:

Gonzo 16th Apr 2007 22:34

Spitoon,

Welcome to Heathrow!:ugh:

Even now, years after their introduction we still get crews mistakenly reading back 'Active' and 'Echo' for ETTIV: 'Oscar', 'Ulster' and others instead of OSTER. Up until recently we had ROKIT as a 27R hold and LOKKI as a 27L hold, which used to get mixed up quite a few times an hour.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR 17th Apr 2007 09:21

Aaahhh.. come back the days of Block 87, Block 79, Block 81....

2miles600feet 17th Apr 2007 09:28


Slight thread creep, I know, but who named the points on the Medwy P-RNAV procedures for 27L and R, then??? I take it he's not a Man U fan....?!
BEKUM may well be a PILOK, but this point in fact relates to something that goes with your eggs for breakfast. SOSIG and TOMTO are other breakfast related waypoints. They are so named because it was recognised from the outset that the only realistic opportunity to fly over these points is in the very early morning.


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