Well HR have got better since I went through the system.

I applied in April 2002 and started at the college in December 2004 - and that was without failing anything through the application process :ugh:

Good luck to you all going through it at the moment and see you on the other side of the college :)

Stage 1 sellection test
 

Hi everybody,what an interesting forum. Just what i have been looking for to help me through stage 1!

I have my stage 1 in two days, just a few questions regarding motivation test.

*Is it multiple choice?
*How many questions are there?
*Are the answer choices very similar to each other,to trick you?
*I have prety much covered the motivation document which you are required to learn, but havn't covered the types of aircraft, looks painfull! Do questions come up on the types of aircraft, is it an essential read?
*What do you advise for smart/casual?
*Is there any 1-2-1 discussions/interviews or is all group based to start with?

Look forward to your replys!

thanks
Ali

The answers are all in the thread.

The questions you will face (multiple choice) are based on the whole document. So learn it all. Sorry to be so blunt, but you might as well start as you mean to go on......When you come to finally qualify as an ATCO, you need to know your unit's Manual of Air Traffic Services back to front, left to right and upside down. And that document could easily run into hundreds of pages.

To summarise the thread: Stage 1 is all group testing, no interviews. I'd recommend looking smart (I'd hate to be the one guy there in jeans and a t-shirt when everyone else is smart). Can't remember off hand how many questions on the motivation paper.

And learn your D/ST equations
 

Hi thanks for that advice, any links on information on D/ST equations?

Thanks
Ali

Just practise with random numbers...

a/c doing 420 knots/mph, how far will it fly in 20mins...

a/c flies 40 miles in 10 mins, what speed is it doing...

a/c needs to travel 120 miles, is doing 480mph, how long will it take...

Be comfortable finding any of the missing numbers and you'll be fine.

I'm not comfortable with any of the above.
There must be a flaw in the selection process ;)

Medical
 

I recently submitted an application form having sucessfully passed stage one. I got a reply from HR telling me that the form had been to sent to the medical specialists at NATS and following that I would be invited to stage two. Is this normal? I have a funny feeling that my eyesight will fail me.

Stage 3
 

Booked for 27th Oct.

Any info or tips would be much appreciated.

Ezy

Also for the DST stuff, everything was based on multiples of 6 making it very easy to work out how far stuff goes every minutes etc. Eg 120kts 2mile/min 180kts (3) 480kts etc made it very quick and easy for me, just knock a 0 off and treat it as 6 times table!

Hi guys,


Got my stage 2 on Tuesday but I've been wondering....

I'm only 18 and have noticed on the NATS website it says you can't hold a radar licence until you're 21 - Any idea how long it would be before I'd start the training?

Or is it a question better asked at the end of my interview?

.....although that would only apply with area. If you go the Aerodrome route you could be valid within 12 months of your start date at the college.

uordom,

I think every application which has information about corrected eyesight is submitted to NATS medical for approval - as i guess this is something that a computer can't automatically check. As long as you fall within the guidelines on the NATS website, you'll be fine.

This happened to my application, because I submitted information about my corrected eyesight - and then when it had been checked over by NATS medical, I was then invited to the next stage. After your stage 3, you will also have a medical where they check parts of your eyesight - it's much like visiting the optician.

Hope this puts your mind at rest - and if you've got queries - just print out the page of the NATS website about eyesight, visit your optician, and ask if you fit in to the set guidelines.

Oral Boards
 

Hello all,

I don't envy the guys who are going through the recruitment process just now, I just started the college in July and I remember how stressful it was waiting for results, studying for your next stage etc :eek:

Our course has oral boards starting on Thursday and everyone is mega stressed so you guys about to start the college have all this to look forward to!!!:E

If anyone has any questions about the workload at the college, studying for exams etc or even just general chat about Bournemouth, then just gimme a shout.

Cheers

Kev:ok:

Hurn.
 

Hi Kev,

How's things going for you in Hurn? I'm starting in Jan. and hoping to get onto the aerodrome course! It sounds like you're on the area side as you mentioned "oral boards"....... or are these a part of aerodrome as well? Are you prepared for them? What do you have to learn and how much effort is needed?? Finally,I'd just like to know how tough the course is and how much studying do you need to do each evening to keep up with things?

I'll leave you peace now,
Best of luck,
Stephen.

Chedchenko,

Yes there are oral boards on the aerodrome stream as well, you need to study pretty damn hard for them (there will be others who will tell you otherwise and claim otherwise - they're either lying or a one of the lucky few who just absorb everything instantly)

Aerodrome and Area are pretty different from day 1, although i havent done Area so cant comment on that side of things

PM me if you want more Aerodrome info

Cheers

Stephen,

Just to follow up on what AJ7 said, I've never done an oral board before but I've been studying like a demon because there is so much ground to cover. Our course has just finished the written exam last week(where you have to learn parts of MATS part 1 verbatim) and now we are all busting a gut to study for our oral boards so be under no illusions buddy, its hard work but good fun at the same time. In fact I don't think they do a written exam on oral boards, maybe AJ7 can confirm that for you.

Hope you get aerodrome if thats what your after

Again, any questions just gimme a shout, if not, I'll see you in January

Kev:ok:

Echo kevs comments... aerodrome doesnt have verbatim learning though :E :D

Oral boards can cover anything in the course... but they tend to pick on stuff that wasnt in any written exam, or stuff that you performed poorly in on the written exam. Usually 30mins long, feels like 3 hours... No written assessment as such but you may be asked to draw a diagram of airfield markings or something relevant.

My board (and many others) take the line of start-off question then the questions flow from linked topics such as...

Shown a model of an a/c... what type is it?
What routes would you expect this type to operate on?
PAX capacity of this type?
Vortex wake category?
Vortex spacing between this type and a.n. other type?

etc etc.

Key - Don't mention anything you're not comfortable expanding on in the next answer :ok:

Its not too bad... honest

Best of luck Kev

Adrian

At the college, do graduates have a better success rate than those who don't hold degrees? If so, would this mean that NATS are more likely to hire graduates, because they tend to perform better at the college? I'm part of the 30% of applicants who don't have a degree and I'm curious as to how this might affect my chances! Also, how important are A-Level grades? For example, if at Stage 3 they have to decide between 2 equally good applicants, and one has 3 grade As at A-Level and the other has 3 grade Cs, would this affect who is picked? I'd appreciate any thoughts on this! Thanks.

The fact that you have a degree, or do not have a degree, is immaterial during, and after, the selection process. If you meet the standard, you are in. You are not competing against others in the selection process. :ok:

As to whether you'll succeed at the college, that's down more to your hard work and ability, rather than academic grades.

Tam-the-merry,

Funny you should bring this up. The other day whilst having a de-brief after a simulator run (that had gone pretty well, but there's always room for improvement), the rather charasmatic instructor said "You know what your problem is? You have a degree. Degrees make everyone think too much before they actually do anything."

And he has a point. Whilst doing the sims, there's not a lot of time to think and deliberate over your plan......you just have to do it. He's right, I did intially try to think about everything and double/triple check my thoughts before pressing that footswitch to transmit. I've literally had to retrain my brain and my confidence to "Just Do It", and if it initially goes wrong, who cares, you can fix it later so it's right.

So on the practical side, degrees mean nothing, apart from sometimes it hinders people from making quick decisions to start with.

As for theory learning, again, degrees pretty much mean nothing, except for MAYBE (I emphasise) for people that would be used to high pressure learning, but it's not usually the case, as all universities differ. Our TATC course currently is so diverse, you have people who have Oxbridge degrees, first class degrees from top unis, college people, people who left school the earliest they could, people who have had well paid professional jobs in other career areas, ex-student "bums", chefs, bankers.......you name it.

As a graduate myself, I can honestly say I have never in my life had to learn so much new stuff in a short space of time. My degree was a piece of piss compared to this (and no, I didn't do something pointless like Social Anthropology). But everyone, no matter what background of education, is on a level playing field with regards to the learning on the course. Please don't think because someone has a degree, they will do better, because there won't be any difference. If anything, the degree holders could fall into a trap of complacency if they end up thinking like that, and then end up failing.

As for A levels, correct me if I'm wrong, you only need GCSEs for this (5 at C or above). Any A levels you have is a bonus. Also remember, they don't end up "deciding" between two good candidates. If you pass the standard, they take you. You compete against the standard, not others. (Currently).

WTB

Thanks for the quick replies! For some reason I just assumed that I'd be competing with others for a place on the course.. I suppose I'll have to scrap my plans to sabotage the other applicants' interviews! :E

Watch_the_birdie- very interesting to hear your thoughts about degrees- I certainly feel a lot better about being degreeless! In an age where you need an NVQ just to blow your nose, the NATS recruitment process is rather refreshing!

Also.. Do most people get through first time? I have read on here that some people got through on their 2nd or 3rd attempt, is that relatively rare? For example, on an average course, what percentage would have got in first time, what percentage got in second time etc..

I've got my stage 2 coming up and have found all the information on here very useful- thanks to everyone who has contributed.

I don't know myself the actualy figures, but going on the people on my course, we have a large percentage of first-timers, yet there are also a significant number of 2nd attempts. Not sure about 3rds.

On the whole it appears that most of the 2nd attempters initially failed at the 3rd stage interview, for a variety of reasons. I think mainly down to preparation/apparent motivation.

Watch_the_bridie,

If people fail at the thrid stage interviews, how did they manage to get into the college in the first place? Surely they have to pass the interviews at the selection stage!

Uordom, the first time they applied they failed at the 3rd stage, so they reapply a year later and pass all 3 stages.

I think Uordom is asking what the pass rate is at the college, not the selection process. Pass rate at the college is around the 50% mark I reckon. If you just fail then you might get a recourse/mini recourse. Once you are out though there is no second attempts. On my aerodrome course 18 started and 12 passed, 2 of those were dropouts though.

Priorities
 

Just a quickie guys. I have my Stage 3 in Manchester on Friday and I'm having a minor panic about one part of it.

Do they feed you or should I take a packed lunch? Coz I don't want to be hungry when I'm trying to think of answers to their questions.

Any info gratefully received.

PS This is a serious request!!

We had a buffet lunch thing at my one, so I think you should be fine without a lunch. Maybe some brain snacks though?

Hi all

Firstly thanks to all you experienced ATCOs out there for your help.
I find the advise here to be very useful and I have passed stage 1 recently but want to know what i can do to prepare for stage 2. I have no idea what is involved in the computer tests and interview. Is there anything i can read? should i look at the Air traffic control manual part 1? Should i go over some brain training on my DS? :ugh:
Any replies much appreciated.
Cheers

Thanks for the food tips guys... good to know I won't starve.

nickhopkinsjnr, re. Stage two, the best thing to read is this thread. It's a bit laborious but start at the beginning and go through it all, it helped me loads.

I read everything I'd had from NATS for stage 1 and 2. There's 3 parts to the day:

Part 1
A motivation interview with an HR person where they ask you loads of scripted questions and you give as much or as little detail as you feel, but the HR person can't deviate from the script so you have to judge it yourself.

Part 2
A knowledge test where you answer some multi-choice questions based on the booklet they provided you a link to for Stage 2. Remember things like a/c types and NATS airports, codes etc. but also be prepared to do some simple maths re. headings, airspeeds and flight times etc. No rush on this as there's more than enough time to complete, unlike the Stage 1 tests.

Part 3
The infamous and dreaded computer tests. Using an old BBC type monitor and a task specific keyboard (which has similarities with the keyboards used in Area Control Centres) with abcde buttons for each hand, a numberpad and some selection buttons. You have a few different tasks, all simple in theory but made complex by the high workload and quick speed required. Things like making moving numbers avoid each other by selecting one to 'destroy', categorising objects and numbers depending on a set of rules, but these rules can change mid game so be observant. Also, they might ask you to do this with one hand whilst at the same time answering maths questions with the other (sadly you only have one brain to use and very limited time)

My advice is to stay calm and relaxed through it all. You will make loads of mistakes in the computer tests so accept that now and just do your best. If you let yourself get upset or angry you'll make more mistakes. I don't know how true this is, but when i had to make planes avoid each other AND do maths i prioritised the avoidance and only did the maths if I had time, and I got through to Stage 3 so it worked for me.

Good Luck

Meh...I didn't get through my stage 2 :(

I believe the computer tests were my downfall - The last bit was ridiculous, eventually I got to the point where I just ignored the maths questions cos I wasn't getting any of 'em right. Although I think I did pretty rubbish on my interview aswell - Probably because it was only the 2nd interview I've ever had :cool:

Question for ATCO's
 

Can anyone answer me this question?

How does a Nautical Mile relate to one minute of latitude?

Think I've got the correct answer, just want to make sure I understand it.

Cheers!!!

A nautical mile is defined as the length of arc of a great circle subtended by an angle of one minute at the centre of the Earth.

i.e. 1 minute= 1 nautical mile.

1 degree = 60 minutes

and so on.

Im not an ATCO, YET:}, but i'll take a stab at it

1 nautical mile = 1 minute of latitude
thus 60 nautical miles = 1 degree(of latitude not longitude)
1 nautical mile per hour = 1 knot

hope this helps

WTB beat me to it:{

oh well I guess i'll have to await another oppurtunity to appear intelligent:8

Does anyone know if the motivational paper is multiple choice? Like the bit you get the information from on the airoplanes, RVSM's and such that NATS send? What kind of questions is it?

Does anyone also know if you can get in with a criminal record (not been in jail or anything) ?

What does the security clearance consist of, I take it just checking you're not a terrorist?

One of the questions is "Are you a member of any terrorist organisation?"