Useful info!
 

Hi there,

Really useful info! Cheers! Could anyone tell me a little more about the second stage? I have mine coming up next week! Is it really just the info on the link that can be used to prepare? I was worried in case this info may crop up in the interview! All advice is much appreciated! :)

Anyone else got stage 2 on monday? I'm a very willing tester/testee :)

Nope. Week on Monday for me. Currently trying to write down as many possible interview questions as I can think of. Tomorrow I'll have a go at answering them :}

unfortunately, i was turned down at the final hurdle for the nats training.
if anyone wants any info on any part of the interview/test process i would be more than happy to help if i can.
(i was turned down fairly recently, february)

Hi,

I have the second stage soon and was wondering if the questions that will be asked will be based around the booklet that Im supossed to read up on, or does that info need to be learnt for stage 3 (technical interview)

What sort of questions have other people had asked at the stage 2 interview?

What can I do to prepare for the computer test at sage 2?

Thanks for any help

Clown fish.

clown fish,
the booklet of information that you have downloaded is used in one of the tests at stage 2, therefore it goes without saying that you need to study it, it is also used for the stage 3 interview but in much greater detail.
the computer tests are difficult to advise on, they are one of those things you can either do or you cant. they are fairly straight forward(in my opinion)
good luck with it

Cheers Bob,

Got the booklet sorted out now, just nervous about the structured HR interview now.

Join the club.

1 week to go :uhoh:

Can anyone who has sat the motivation paper from Stage 2 this week provide an insight into it compared to the Stage 1 one?

How many questions is it? Are they multiple choice? Is it on paper or computer?

Any hints on particular bits of the document to gen up on?

How was the HR interview? Is it really as structured as they say?

And what were the computer tests like?

Thanks

Why don't you just come out and ask for all the answers!

That would be cheating, and I have got some intelligence enough to learn the document!

Hello there!

A slightly more helpful answer I hope: The second of the motivation papers is slightly more difficult and does tend to test the details given in the document - including frequencies. It also requires you to answer some more mathematical problems. It is similar in length to the initial. Best advice, just learn the ENTIRE document. You'll need to know it at some point anyway!

The HR interview isn't too bad. It's an hour long with a member of the HR team. They don't smile, don't really react to anything you tell them. They merely have a bunch of questions and a list of possible answers. They'll stop you once they have got an answer that is similar to yours.

The computer tests are hellish! Can't really describe them without enducing a hell of a lot of fear on your part. They're horrible, but manageable. Just prioritise and don't let it stress you out too much! It's around 30-60 mins long and you can take all the time you want. Also, you can practice before hand. I'd recommend making sure you know exactly what you're doing before moving on to the actual thing! lol.

Hope this helps, Ricky.

Ricky, I was merely stating that some people are coming on here and pretty much asking for the answers to the tests!!

Not cheating but not far off!

If, a big If, you and your friends make it to live training then you are going to be expected to use a lot of your own brain to go and find out the stuff for yourself, no website to help you learn the MATS part 2 I'm afraid!

Did stage 2 yesterday, found out I got through today.. amazing turn around time!! Didn't expect anything for weeks..

I was utterly convinced I'd failed the computer tests, so just goes to show! :}

Hey Kazzy,

You said, you "have got some intelligence enough to learn the document!",

...But beware- I learnt that document backwards and still got baffled on some of those Q's. Some of the later Q's are lengthy D-S-T scenarios, and in retrospect I would have been better off reading&answering those first! [my brain was getting frazzled at the end... mind you the HR lady came back a little late and we had a few extra minutes to complete!]

Going back to what I said about 'knowing' the document... You sometimes THINK you know it, but until you start attempting questions you dont realise how tricky it can get... So try and make a few up beforehand etc to get into the answering frame of mind rather than... 'yeah, I know what VOR stands for!'.

Ricky is right about the computer tests, mind you I have heard that they dont rely on them too heavily [but dont take MY word for it]...
He's a lickle wrong about the 'They don't smile' image... I got a few cheeky grins outa my designated lady... With a giant chess set sitting outside the atmosphere was asking for us to burst out laughing [CTC only].

But as always- expect the worst and you will do well in any situation.

There is one other place that you can find 'all the answers' as Manc says you're after...and thats http://www.pprune.org/forums/index.php

PM me if ya want anything mo' specific...

EGMC

Interesting EGMC, where have you heard that?

I would hazard a guess that the factors being tested by the computer tests aren't just what they appear to be testing, but I'm probably wrong :ooh:

Gonzo - are LL tower visits a possibility at the moment? :)

Gonzo,

I would JUST like to emphasise the 'too heavily', and more importantly the '[but dont take MY word for it]'.

On my final stage, one of the other interviewees [who is an ATSA], said that the HR guy at his stage 2 told him this.
Specifically the last of the 3 tests, which is like a 1980 Amstrad ATC game- was there in a kinda testing phase to identify any positive correlation towards the success at college.

I wouldnt suggest that any of the testing is not used in actual decisions but I was under the impression that it isn't given such a heavy weight as people fear.

I am of course just saying something that somebody told somebody who then told another somebody :hmm: ... So a rumour!

Incase anybody has the wrong impression, I would advise to do your very best at everything and assume that every little assessment is critical in the outcome as to weather you get a good email or a bad email.

Yeah Timelapse, I agree- some people thought the 3rd test was a direct ATC ability test because you are essentially seeing a simplified traffic screen... But really it is testing specific skills like prioritising and multi-tasking

Wasn't suggesting anything on your part, EGMC, just curious.

Most people seem to think that they have failed the stage2 computer test. :ugh: When I did it in October I couldn't wait for it to be over!! Structured interview was not as bad as I thought it would be...probably cos I had prepared for the worst imaginable questions. And yes the rumours are true they are not supposed to smile or give you any sort of feedback but the woman doing my interview ended up laughing at one of my answers....can't remember what I said but it must have been funny!!:D :D

Didn't mean any disrespect MancBoy, but you did seem to be a little unhelpful and, dare I say, unfriendly!

I look forward to the challenges that lay before me at the college and understand that my friends and I will have to work bloody hard, but there is nothing wrong with giving prospective candidates a little description as to what to expect is there? After all, I wasn't giving the answers; merely, just a little "heads up" with regards what to expect. :ooh:

Ricky, if that is your real name, then If you make it to Swanwick our paths may cross and you'll see how helpful and friendly I can be.

In fact, I gave one of your trainee friends a tour of Swanwick just last week!

If you respect me, my friend, then I will respect you, bearing in mind that I am the one who will be signing off your assessments should you get that far.

"On my final stage, one of the other interviewees [who is an ATSA], said that the HR guy at his stage 2 told him this.
Specifically the last of the 3 tests, which is like a 1980 Amstrad ATC game- was there in a kinda testing phase to identify any positive correlation towards the success at college."

In fact it is beyond that phase as it has already been proved to have no relevance to validation rates as I understand it and does indeed not 'count' on the day.

Ricky:
I can indeed concur that MancBoy is a particular helpful bod and to add to what he said, having everything provided on a plate might help you get so far, but it will be a false security as things don't get put on a plate once at a unit. It's in the companies interest and definitely your own that if you don't have what it takes that you get weeded out now. It will only prolong the heartache and credit card bill if it happens further down the line.

Then why still do it? Other than to induce stress in poor applicants just before they go and do an HR interview :)

intherealworld, do I know you?

Thanks for the kind words.:ok:

timelapse; because in true NATS fashion it's too expensive to redesign it. It's prob best you learn to cope with the stress now. Many oral boards to follow if you get through!

Ah so when they're forced to replace those aging laptops, they can change it then..

Pretty sure it said ©SHL 1992 on the startup screen :ok:

EGMC, I apparently do not possess the same charm and charisma as you then! :(

1992!!! That is soooooooooo modern we have a computer system at work that I think is from before I was even born (I was born in 1979 BTW) it does what it has to do even though it seems to do it all in slow time though and is highly annoying when it plays up.

Stage one of application process
 

Hi there,

I have been accepted to go and attend the first stage of the application process.

Can anyone tell me what the tests are like on stage one...especially regarding the maths.Basically what im asking is whether its really hard?
My maths is not poor but it is not super super good either.
Are the SHL tests a good representation of what the tests are actually like?

Is it worth me purchasing one of those physcometric testing books to practice with?

Do they go into alot of detail on the motivation paper?

Any advice i would really appreciate.

Thankyou.:)

gastra,

Please don't think I'm being flippant with my answers, but please think about what I say.....

If I said it was easy, would you not practice? They might have been easy for me, but then I might be stunning at maths :E

You're asking whether it is worth you practicing for a selection process for a job you're applying for?

I think you should have been told already that the majority of the motivation paper is based on the .pdf document you should have been given. If you read through the document, that's the level of detail of the questions. If you learn the document, then you'll know all the answers. It's that simple. And good practice for when you're at a unit as a trainee and have to learn a fancy document call the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part Two, which might have hundreds of pages. :zzz:

I know (I hope) I'm probably off the mark here, but the tone of your post seems like you're not too fussed if you get in or not.

I did the stage two tests last week and was wondering what sort of time people have had the results in, as I havent yet.

Any ideas? (getting worried now)

Thanks

Hi there Gonzo,

Well that was not very helpful and yes you are way off the mark.

Just wanted some advice.

I am quite prepard to study VERY hard and i just wanted some information.

Allo Gastra,

Firstly, the thread sandwiched 'tween yours n Gonzo's is a real useful one... just make sure you don’t click it again on your way to the end. Doh!

I mistakenly thought that the zeroth stage [application] was a thing I needed to work at... & take time over. It's just to filter those that meet requirements... That’s all [Oh, they will prob use it to reference Q's in third stage too]... But they don't count it as a 'stage', so you shouldn’t either!

...NOW the stages begin!

"...especially regarding the maths"
- depends if you have a degree in it, or you have avoided each other like an ex-girlfriend!


"Are the SHL tests a good representation..."
IMO NO, but if you can do the online SHL Q's you can do the NATS ones, the real bitch is the cube/nets... There are some aspects of the assessment that you can only do nout about!

"...purchasing one of those physcometric testing books..."
-No!..'Purchase', whadya mean PURCHASE!?- you cant afford to purchase things, go to good ol' library!... where you can also find other ATC intro booooks [if you're interested]

"...detail on the motivation paper?"
-It's not really testing ATC knowledge. the aim as i understand it is to test how well you can learn.... so they give you summat that is sposed to be NEW to your brain and then test you on it. [it could have been based on anything, obviously there is a good advantage in making it an ATC intro booklet]

If you have SPECIFIC Q's I'm sure people would be more directly helpful, if not get me on the PM!

CLOWN FISH:

Stage 2
3 days!... [drove home from CTC on a Friday PM, and got an email on Monday AM]

Stage 3
4days!... [Tube home on Wednesday PM, email on Sunday AM]

Hi EGMC,

Thanks for your advice...very helpful.

In fact the link is very helpful also...:)

Cheers

speedbird1t

they should give you a pencil and an eraser for the cube test. Some of the people at my testing day drew the cubes on the eraser to work it out. However, it may slow you down and is dependant on you getting the pattern right. I found the easiest method is just to answer all the tests without relying on any tricks. Looking back though, had I known what was going to be in them I probably would have practised them a few times beforehand. Like IQ tests you tend to get better the more times you do them. Also, rather than 'getting passed' the tests you may develop some of the skills/mental dexterity they require.

Hope this helps

Hello all,

I’ve been following this forum for a while now, and finally had a chance to apply for ATC training in Poland. The recruitment drive was halted for some time, during which the local NATS-like agency went through a major structural change and is now known as Polish Air Navigation Services Agency (PANSA). Now that all’s back to normal, I decided to take a plunge and sent in an application, though I’m well established in my other, non-aviation career. Passion or stupidity – you decide ;).

Anyhow, the recruitment process has changed a bit it seems, and I will try to share it with you as I go along. From what I’ve seen so far, the process in Poland is as follows:

• On-line form with basic bio info, strengths/weaknesses, three situation descriptions that prove you’re fit for an ATC job and a problem solving “what would you do” exercise with three situation to choose from (You’re set for a meeting with a VIP and he doesn’t show up, You’ve got a deadline and can’t make the schedule, You’ve got a coach ticket, but your seat is taken). The last exercise has to be filed in English.

• English test

• Multi-stage ATC qualification test (no info on what they include)

• Interview

• Medical

If you pass that, you’re hired as an intern-in-training, working from 7.30 to 15.30 for a period of six months, after which you’ll get the final decision. No word on pay. So I’m waiting for a call now – maybe that dream of working on EPWA TWR is not that far off ;).

dangerdanger
Thanks for your reply. I passed stage 1 last month and must admit I didn't find the cubes too bad in the end. I identified most of the correct answers without redrawing them. The spare paper can be used however you wish.
BAW1T

Hi guys,
Can anybody recommend a website or a book which will allow me to practice cube tests/spatial awareness? Have done the practice tests on SHL, which were fine but they only offer Numerical/Verbal reasoning, and by the sound of it, this is not what the 1st stage requires.
Thanks:)