Sa Atc- Acc Jhb - Staffing
 

HI

Just heard that 2 have resigned??? One off to OMDB ACC and the other OMMS ACC??

What is happening!! Is it management, Managers(JHB ACC!!) that make people leave.

Good luck with 2010 SA ATC.

Apparently there are many others that have their CVs out in the land of the dust.

Rgds
Land of HSBC

Your info is spot on. They lost one earlier in the year to UAE ACC. Then another one went to DXB APP (from FAJS ACC). One was transferred to FADN. Another two have resigned recently, one to OOMS ACC and the other to UAE ACC. There is a possibilty of a couple more in the next six months. Watch this space. I also hear that JS, the new center boss, is shaking things up a bit. And not for the better I'll have you know.

The reason these people are leaving is not singular, but a combination of small things that niggle at night. They all add up and become one big burden. The union that look after the workers on the floor is pretty useless as well. Would rather spend money on trips to IFATCA (and JW Blue Label) than on proper legal assistance. Every year that salary negotiations come around it is the same story. Yap yap yap for days on end, go to arbitration and come out with 6% on basic salary (3% on gross). The problem also is that some halfwit years ago declared ATC in SA to be an essential service. So now all the boys and lovely girls can do is jump up and down and stomp there feet and the result is .......6% on basic. So instead of the union tackling this minor obstacle they go to far away places and yap yap yap for days on end (with JW Blue Label) and the result is ........:mad: all.

Then there is the ex-controllers who proceeded into management. Nothing wrong with that mind you, but as soon as his/her @ss walked into the new corner office a frontal lobotomy was performed and voila, a complete idiot with the management skills of a potplant appeared on the other side. Wooooo, it's magic. CN, GH, HR, HH and lately JS to name but a few. Now you would think that as a person that comes from the floor this new uber-manager will remember the conditions that was prevalent during his/her headset tenure. Don't be silly. I think it is called "The Peter Principle."

Then there is the salary issue. The salary itself is not half bad, but it's not half good either. It's like having an itch that you just can not scratch. If you add another 5-7K onto the net salary you will see a happier lot. Note happier, not happy. In order for this to happen, management must be shown the errors of there ways. In a service industry your coal face workers who earn the income is the only asset. If you don't look after them, they are not going to look after you. Instead they will have to look after themselves in places like UAE and Muscat and Bahrain and Delphi.

I know there is nothing in this post that you can put your finger on ORANPO, but it's not as cut and dry as that. It isn't a bad place. The work is satisfying to no end, the controllers are an awesome bunch, the "new" system is magic and the hours are acceptable but the place has lost it's sparkle. Like a marriage that ends due to "irreconcilable differences." The partners will always say "where did we go wrong". That is what most controllers feel, "where did it go wrong".

It doesn't come down to money, or management, or working conditions per se. It is the combination of the incompleteness off all this that wears on you after a while. That itch that you can't reach.

Quo vadis ATNS? I think themselves they do not know.

:{ :{ :{

Bullet Tooth Tony:"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity".

Resignations first of many! Same story as before. Goes in cycles. Currently moral really low. With no-one wanting to be the last to turn off the lights.

This is nothing new. Do a search for FAJS ATC and you'll find all the reasons for leaving still the same.

Cheers

Same old story resignations and money :ugh: , the poor JHB Controllers :( , my question is what are we doing about it except complain?
Mr “Voice of the People” where are you, blaming Management, Solidarity and GATCSA! := The last shop steward election was pathetic to say the least (No interest from Members to vote or participate at all) and it was concluded not even 2 weeks ago.
Yes there are a lot of things that needs attention, complaining about it will not help at all, get involved with the so called s :mad: t union and try and make a deference. O sorry we don’t do that we just complain and blame! Thank You Solidarity :D for the 8% increase we got this year considering the CPIX was below 5% at that stage I think they did an admirable job seeing that there are so many Controllers willing to be shop stewards. :ok:
Yes, I agree controllers should be paid more and it is a pity that our controllers are leaving to the Middle East for more money :{ . I have heard that their conditions (Management) are not that nice either, the cheque to eat up the s :mad: t is just bigger.
Can controllers stand together and make a deference? No I don’t think so. := Good luck to the new shop stewards and the GATCSA EB (enjoy the JW Blue) ;) , at least you guy’s and girls are trying to better the situation for us and some of us are grateful. :O

Just a small correction for the first poster, the ACC isn't in Dubai, it's in Abu Dhabi, about 150 km to the Sth of Dubai.

To Vox Populi, not being an expert on the Sth African situation at all, but in all of your reasons why people are leaving nowhere did you mention the security situation in Joburg. Don't you think people may be leaving because they are sick of living in fear all the time. As I said not an expert by any means, but I would have thought it would be some sort of motivation for leaving.

128.3 126.7 northbound 464
 

hi all.

The Js ACC guys and gals are world respected, doesnt management( JHB -JS) realise that.

Heard from a bud that he has this master plan to re-sectorise the sectors, apparently this is an effort to make these ACC people less marketable due to them only working "2 sectors".

1stly, YOU NEED MORE STAFF!!!!!!!!!! Allready the XMAS season approaches and there are peolpe on leave etc, how is it gonna work.

JHB ACC are world best, keeping them in SA is gonna be hard, especially of that certin promise of RET. PLan fell through!
As it stand there are 11 Cvs floating around in the land of sand. Now that OOMS has openned up, you are spoilt for choice.

Chommmma!

ANSA, you are spot on as well. I did not mention the the crime and other non-work related things as this is something that affects everybody, not just ATC's. But make no mistake, this is a factor that propably overshadows all others. When you compare personal safety to an idiot boss, the boss becomes a soft background humm.

African Headset, for too long I have tried to help where I can. I had a lot of good ideas, I didn't just complain, I offered solutions. So tell me, how far has the medical aid after retirement issue progressed? How far has the essential services problem progressed? Does ACC have two on a N/S like APP and East/Central? Does working 4 hours plus without a break on a N/S sound legal to you according to CARS? But, there is absolutely f...all you or GATCSA can do about it. Management will NEVER allow ATC to come off the essential services list unless forced by a court of law. I'm not a person who condones toi-toing, but hell, if it works for the rest lets give it a try. O wait, you can't. So shut up and do as you are told. Grievance you say - I have that T-shirt as well. Work to rule - caution caution.

An even more contentious issue is the station allowance (JS ACC vs East/Central) conundrum. It was implemented by GATCSA so that they can have leverage in future negotiations. What a load of s..t that was. They lined there own pockets 'cause 90% of the GATCSA board did not work JS ACC and neither could they validate there. So apart from an 8% increase on basic salary i.e. 5% in reality, precisely what have they done to better daily and long term conditions. Think beyond this year and the next. How much do you spend out of your own pocket to supplement your pension shortfall? How much are you going to spend on medical aid when you retire? Dude, you can't count that high.

So no wonder they are resigning in droves. The controllers get screwed by ATNS and when they turn to GATCSA for help they get the cold shoulder because the union has no leverage. Only a proper protected strike will fix things for a while. The French are shining examples of this. But alas, while Rome burns......

Slightly off the post, but an old mate of mine who used to work at EGPK, Simon Marsden moved b ack to his native land in SA some 5 years ago or so.

I've no idea where he ended up, any news?

Hi Niknak,

Regarding your question - not quite! I don't think many of those that went to SA for assessments actually took the offer.

Check your PM's.

I vote 2 things.
1. Voxie gets off his stallion and stops the ranting.
2. That he fixes his pc clock. don't know how but his posts jump up on the timeline, sometimes ahead of posts already posted.

PS. You haven't even taken a dip at Solidarity yet!!

Cheers

When your gone....
 

Arfrica Headset,
Please please please, get the facts before you make a As:mad: ole of your self. You sound like a the typical.... "can not go any where because I don't have "THE RATING.' !
.....oh it is not so good in the Land of Sand ? more pay same sh:mad: hey ? Well not all the stations are the same. Your New recruitment drive to the Middle East to get Staff back what a load of Cr:mad: . The Stander gang could just as well have saved the money as the guys they interviewed are all from the places with the problems.The only guys that are leaving here are the ones working in the Sh:mad: le postings.
Next time ask them why no controllers from Dubai where interviewed.They go back and tell you all that they have done such a wonderfull job in Getting People back! Well I think these guys will in any case have gone back even without there visit!
The pay is not the only thing that is better out here. Staffing, Time off, (BY A Long Shot), better pre planning.Training , Better Procedures. And definately better managers than the Clowns now running the show in SA.
Driving is bad yes! but not a lot worse than William Nicol Taxi drivers at 5 o'clock in the afternoon. We don't have barb wire any where, no one has been hijacked here since .........ever. Sure it is not my Home Country but, neither is the place we call SA nowadays either. SAD BUT TRUE!
I was also one who use to say "me leave SA.. never".However let me tell you that once you stand outside and look in you'll be shocked to see how bad things really are on your Side of the world.
My advise ....... If you can get out before the ship sinks do it. Remember in the end it will only be the weak and the rats left onboard as the SAS ATNS slowly goes down!

Nothing wrong with my clock. All my posts were in time order. My first and second reply had to be approved by the moderator which can take two or three days. When they eventualy appear it is in the timeslot that they were originaly posted, not when the moderator approved them.

Can't dip at Solidarity as they only take orders from the union and can not operate outside their mandate. Would be nice though to let Flip Buys and co. loose on ATNS, sans the chokechain.

I won't call the managers better, I would call them.... I would call them.....I would call them....please wait while I take a moment...ah I would call them, well, different. You know, same same but different.
:E

Hey Voxie

I think you have got your facts wrong. GATCSA is the professional body, involved in professional issues (target rate of pay, duty hours) Solidarity is the UNION with their own (elected) shop stewards (did you vote). The UNION gets its mandate from the members (If you work for ATNS - which I doubt - thats you)

The UNION negotiates salaries (GATCSA not even invited to these), fight legal battles (labour related issues - fighting, incidents, absenteeism etc).

Never heard of Flip Buys but if he/you have ideas don't keep them to yourselves!

Cheers

See "SABC vs Coop & Others. SCA case # 2004/570" Read at http://www.law.wits.ac.za Don't let ATNS bully you guys and girls into something. SAA tried the same thing with their pilots and got a real good hiding from ALPA. := About time that ATNS received a proper hiding from the union, just a pity that you are carrying to small a stick.

The "leaving" rot now spreads to FACT. Good for them!!

Vox, I looked at the SABC case. Not my area but aren't those that are affected at ATNS (ex Civil service ATC"S) waiting for a verdict in their case?

This again would potentially be a Solidarity case.

Will wait and see.

PS if the they lose the case then possible help from Solidarity and GATCSA on the cards.

Cheers

Just to make things interesting, I see on the thread above this one that ASA is looking for a couple of people. Eurocat experience preferred. AND they will assist with visas. My, isn't that just right up the Oliver Tambo ACC/APP sleeves.

Vox,did you see this post? Is that a negative or a positive comment?

126,7. Sorry, but I don't grasp your post. If you're asking whether my post is positive or negative, it is neither. It is an observation. Lots of controllers looking elsewhere and not all of them happy to go to UAE or Europe for example. Australia has always been a closed book for SA ATCs but that appears to be changing now. And their requirements are right up the ATNS alley. So I suppose it can be positive for the people and negative for ATNS.

ATNS is heamoraging staff to the UAE at an alarming rate and now ASA gets in the fray. How much longer will Wrenelle and Mike M allow this to continue? When one staff member leaves a company it can be seen as personal, but when they leave in droves you have to look inwards. That headline in Rapport about Zimbabwe bleading to death is rather apt for this situation. As I said earlier, while Rome burns...

126,7. I now understand your post. Sorry, didn't read the ASA thread before replying here. That post was propably made by your standard Australian homophobe who consider South Africans as the scum of the earth. Why don't you ask him/her on that thread if his/her comment is positive or negative. I, for one, would like to see the reply.