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-   -   Obtaining ATC licence by possibly underhand means (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/248002-obtaining-atc-licence-possibly-underhand-means.html)

Co ordination unaffected 14th Oct 2006 09:07

Obtaining ATC licence by possibly underhand means
 
I remember a while back, when I was at the college, that it was alleged that some cadets had obtained the scripts for summative exercises. I left shortly afterwards, but still wonder if anything became of it.

PM me if you'd rather.

Gonzo 14th Oct 2006 09:27

Couldn't possibly comment......... :suspect:

Oh, and it wasn't me!

AlanM 14th Oct 2006 13:47

Blimey - when I was there they used to be kept in a filing cabinet - and the odd person (and I mean ODD!) was seen to be reading them. The folders were then kept shut.

Having said that though, it doesn't matter that much - esp on radar as a whole sim run can change with one heading or level in a different order

(oh and one of those caught is now an LCE..........)

Jerricho 14th Oct 2006 15:29

Oh yes you could Gonze.

I'm sure you could come up with names as well.............. ;)

(It wasn't just scripts, it was strips as well. They took them home and memorised both)

radarman 14th Oct 2006 15:31

In the days of the 'Car Boot' course we used to practice every fortnight on the actual nav plots used in the exam. And with all the theory exams based on a question bank, all you had to do was get hold of the old exam papers, learn the answers off parrot fashion and... Hey Presto, a yellow peril (with posh yellow laces!) was yours for the asking. Well, not quite - you still had to put up a reasonable performance in the practicals. (But we had seen them previously too. Only the callsigns had been changed.) Oh for the good old days :)

CUNIM 14th Oct 2006 20:25

Well you could cheat at the exams maybe, but you would never get past the practical field training and validate. If you are going to play - don't play at being a controller - safety of people comes first always:mad:

360BakTrak 15th Oct 2006 12:27

Hmmm.......stealing and reading scripts wasn't just taking place on my course then?! I recall that some students had some sort of pc-based radar sim, to assist with the radar skills course, loaned to them by a certain instructor there too......the 5 of you know who you are!!!!:E :=

Gonzo 15th Oct 2006 13:37

360BT,

Many PC-based ATC radar sims were/are available for free, so I don't think that it's underhand in any way for students to take advantage of that.

360BakTrak 15th Oct 2006 13:51

IIRC it was software owned by CATC and was therefore not for general use. This was, however, a long time ago so maybe that was the case.

Gonzo 15th Oct 2006 14:02

Oh, ok, I stand corrected! :}

ATCO2 15th Oct 2006 21:09

Hi everybody,

When we are talking about exams, I want someone of you send me an example of the written test that trainees in your country have to pass for the any of ratings (ADI,ADV,APP,APS/RAD etc.) I want to compare it with some exams in my country.

I will appreciate if you do it.

Best regards

Jerricho 15th Oct 2006 22:03

Question 1:

Aircraft ABC is at the same altitude and on the exact reciprocal track to Aircraft XYZ.

Is this

A) A good thing

B) A bad thing

C) They are outside controlled airspace, who cares.

jumpuFOKKERjump 15th Oct 2006 23:43

There was a bloke that went throught ATC SKOOL about the same time as me who got stuck in the simulator for months during his field training with nothing to do but do unsupervised sim runs on the sector he was to be trained on when the sim wasn't doing anything else. In no short time he had memorised all the available exercises & reinforced any and all bad habits he had to a formidable degree, leading to a jaw-dropping experience for his trainer when the real training program commenced.

"Womble242, request FL370."

"Womble242, not available due crossing traffic."

(trainer) "What traffic?"

"Bungair11, out of Blergle. He doesn't depart for 10 minutes so we don't have a strip yet..."

Jerricho 16th Oct 2006 01:06

Hey Plazbot, wasn't there a guy on your course who, in the simulator, would listen to what the person next to him would do and copy it word for word..........and somebody set him up by issuing a toally bogus clearance that he "used" and repeated?

tobzalp 16th Oct 2006 02:47

Yeah but as expected he got sorted out in the field. Not surprising. Prick never paid his share of the taxi coming back from the pub. What goes around, comes around.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR 16th Oct 2006 07:25

This thread saddens me as there are obviously "controllers" out there who probably can't spell "professionalism", let alone practice it. How would they feel if they knew that the captain of the aircraft they were on had obtained his licence by deception? I trust that they get their come uppence on-station and receive lifetime bans (some hope nowadays).

When I trained at Hurn the examining branch steadfastly withheld details of questions and I see no good reason to change that. If you need to cheat you're no bl**dy good.

chevvron 16th Oct 2006 08:07

A certain person in examining branch once told me how he'd gone to an airfield in the south of England to do a validation board and recognised the candidates face, but not his name. A quick check of his records confirmed he'd given this guy a board at an entirely different airfield some time previously, and the guy had then used a totally different name! Whether he actually had two licences, or was 'standing in' for someone else I don't know.

Dances with Boffins 16th Oct 2006 08:28

CATC are aware that there were "hooky" versions of summative exercises in the early courses in circulation. Various small but devious changes were then made to the summative ex's so that anyone trying to perform a "rehearsed" run would give themselves away. :mad:
Hell and damnation was then positioned on high, ready to drop upon the unholy.:E

Small and devious changes will continue to be made to render any future attempts futile. The entire training system is under re-write now. If anyone has a simulator at home that can run Advanced runs, tell NATS. It must be a pretty fancy bit of kit...

Gonzo 16th Oct 2006 11:51

DwB,

I believe the originator of the thread is referring to people who used to take the scripts and strips for 'tomorrow's' exercises home the day before and practice them to spot confliction points.

Jerricho 16th Oct 2006 13:28

Or the individual who knew exactly what time and what aircraft would be stopping just inside the LLZ sensitive area in the LVP exercises.


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