Hold on, guys!

I'm a pilot that flies into EGPK and is therefore regularly 'controlled' by you guys.

Can I ask you to please STOP, especially PheasantPlucker and Rab-K! This window into your mind is causing me a considerable amount of UNEASE!! :bored:

A very good point; and I'm sure the Management is so well off that it doesn't need the landing fees.

Serious question: did we get all this profound concern when "extraordinary rendition" flights were fashionable?

PS

This Post serial (mine; not the thread's) just happens to be my favourite number!

To PP & rab-k : you should be glad that your views didn't hold sway in WW2 otherwise your national language would be German & you wouldn't be able to express your views on a site like this !
On 7 July 2005, 52 Londoners were murdered & 700 injured - they were innocent civilians too - bombed by 4 people with the same views as those that Israel is fighting.
To LeftatRomeoOne - don't worry too much - every organisation has a few that the psychologists missed @ recruitment, even NATS ;-)

PS
My post's serial probably means I shall be unlucky enough to be confronted by placard waving, tree hugging, bleeding heart liberals as I drive into Prestwick tomorrow !

L@R1 - What part of the above causes you your "unease"?

Because I'm an ATCO does that make me any less entitled to have an opinion on something?

Having seen the images on TV and having formed an opinion on a subject independent of and not connected in any way to my job, then to be told that by the way, have you seen the XYZ123, check out the cargo on the FPL and the destination, then of course my already formed opinion will affect how I feel. Only an automaton would say otherwise.

But does it affect how I act in my professional capacity? Aside from that momentary sense of unease, absolutely not! The moment it extended beyond that would be the moment I quit. Hardly a likely scenario I can assure you.

So L@R1, don't lose any sleep mate. Normal service was resumed immediately and will continue.


Off watch - you're an ASS, you warrant no further comment.

Oh, so you can have an opinion but off watch can't. That speaks volumes....

Off Watch
Another that has missed the point of what I (and Rab-k) posted earlier.
As for the comment that followed:rolleyes: ...well...you must be greatful that NATS still employed you then. What do they call it 'care in the community'?:rolleyes:
LeftatRomeoOne - I fear you've missed the point also.
Well, to retaliate with the obvious would only drag this whole thread down even further, so I won't.
If you can't understand now, the reasons that I(we) felt the way we did, then I guess you never will.:bored:

The US worked to undermine the Falklands op in diplomatic areas, pres cos they didn't want aggro with another S American country despite the Ronnie-Maggie love fest.

Obviously some very professional ATCOs up North. I can't remember the last time I scanned Field 18 to such depth. ;)

rab-k, your average miltary ATCO may not bat an eyelid. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I was refering to his/her "opinion" as to what recruitment did or did not miss.

Can I have my brush back when you've finished with it, please?

Let me put another hypothetical case for those with a problem with anything I've said -

You are in a bar and happen to meet one of the freight dogs hauling these things who, in the course of your conversation, tells you that yes they have some degree of unease with regard to what they have to deliver but that they are a professional paid to do a job and will do said same job to the best of their ability.

Would you think them any less professional than his mate who sits in the seat next to him, who proceeds to laugh at the opinion of his colleague then tells you that given what the loads consist of and where they are going he would volunteer to do it for free if asked?

Or is it a case of double standards here?

If my colleagues are admitting to feeling uneasy and being distracted by certain flights, then I suggest they ask to be removed from sector. I'll work them while they wring their hands in the rest room. No problems, no uneasiness. Rab you sounded allright, but pheasant pluckers sounds a bit of a knob. I'm now removing myself from this, ahem, debate, as it's not going to change anything or anyones opinion. Bye.

AyrshireATCer - ta-ta

London Mil;) ;) ;)
Professional?;)
Most certainly!:)
Scanning Field 18 to such depth??;) ;)
Not difficult really;) , considering someone else was ;) sufficiently surprised by the contents to have printed the flight plan off on A4;) highlighted the relevant section and ;) and then left it lying in the ops room for anyone to read;) ;) ;) ;)

If I had felt for a split second that my uneasiness would affect the standard of service being provided, then we'd have been doing exactly as you describe. But I'll keep my trips to the rest room for the usual dose of Sky Sports News and forgo the hand wringing, thanks all the same.

You may not change anything, but you're welcome back anytime.

I think you may find that there was a US carrier crewed and ready to go should Britain have lost one of ours. The last thing Reagan wanted was the humiliation of his closet ally and political friend by a tin pot South American country. The US were Britains biggest intel provider in this conflict along with other discrete assets. this is all documented in Thatcher and Reagans memoirs and a couple of other books.

Ooops soory thread drift.:=

On the basis of my hypothetical 'Freight Dog' scenario above, I've taken the liberty of inviting some input from the 'Freight Dog' community:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=237128

Yes, I will probably be in for a 'flaming' but it should hopefully be interesting all the same...

rab-k, it looks as if your unease has been removed. That is assuming you are not an en-route controller.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5235192.stm

Brush nicely cleaned with turps and returned to rightful owner. :)

Result!
BBC1 lunchtime news reports that weapons cargo flights for Israel will no longer be allowed to use UK civilian airports for staging.
Pres Mildenhall, Brize will deputise?

Guess where most of your airborne intel came from too???? Worked daily blackbird flights out and back to provide y'all with intel...

Actually we need to stop looking for right and wrong here. It's all a bit wrong. The muslim world hates the Jews and blames them for everything wrong in the muslim world.
Israel and her people would be swept into the sea and cast asunder as refugees if the arabs win. More asylum seekers anyone. Not to mention the revenge that would be inflicted. Now Israel ain't the best of neighbours but they are there all the same and there is no acceptable way for the west for them to go away, as it were.
It is not a war as we understand it. The very presence of the "zionist state" in the area is an abomination to virtually all muslims I have ever met. And yet never described as anti-semitic in the media.............however consider :
If a catholic Irish terrorist group was lobbing bombs at into Northern Ireland would we seriously declare a cease fire and trust the UN? I suspect the view from the front would be very different indeed. Lebanon has done Hee Haw to stop and disarm the religious fantics of Hezbollah. What's happening may be a "war crime" but then frankly so was Dresden and Nagasaki if we go there. The muslim countries are getting brave, Iran will soon have a bomb. A weak Isreal would be a second (umpteenth) Jewish holocost.
As I said, it is allll wrong.

Skipness One Echo

May I direct you towards the Military Aircrew Forum http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=236307 ? The points you make are all there and the counters. It is all worthy of discussion but, pethaps, adds drift error to this Thread.

Just a general point; nobody took up my question on "extraordinary rendition" flights.

PP
the psychology comment was meant to be taken with a pinch of salt - note the wink smiley @ the end ? ;)
rab-k
Ass I may be, but I find it depressing that you & one or two others feel uneasy about these flights. Is it because they are going to Israel, because they are carrying munitions through a civil airport or because they are in UK airspace ? What would you suggest ?
The USA has been helping Britain & her Allies since April 1917 in various global conflicts. I am deeply saddened that once again, this Government has given in to the vocal minority - how easily we forget our friends !