Home to Duty - Proposed management buy out
 

Don't take the carrot

Average HTD of £25 p/m equals a buy out of £850. That's just 2 yrs and 10 months of HTD. After that you get - NOTHING. (However the company does save a tidy sum)

But on the other hand management will be within their rights to remove HTD without our consent, so if we refuse we will get nothing. Seems like quite a good deal to me.

Or so I am advised by my union rep.

Haven't seen anything about this one, when did that appear?

From what i hear in rumours etc Home to Duty was requested by the unions with tongue in cheek not thinking we would get it. We did.

Not all units currently get Home to Duty Payments - Luton Tower for one I think

Management can give 6 months notice to withdraw Home to Duty Allowance and we would receive no payment.

To me the buy out on offer seems a very good deal - rather get almost three years of payments as a lump sum than nothing at all

Well, I'd take the carrot. Home to duty milage is a complete anachronism and how it has survived so long I'll never know. It is only worth washers to anyone who lives within a few miles of work and why should the company subsidise those who choose to live a long way away?

Anyone remember the good old days when we actually had to claim it shift-by-shift? 4p a mile - same rate as now only with additional admin costs...

Yes ...and LHG ! That dates me!

" I certify that on the dates covered by this claim I used my own vehicle for these journeys"..... Yep, dates me too:uhoh:

BEX

Well done Bex, I'd forgotten the little submission we had to write on each form. It was a hell of a dilema when you had to borrow the missuses car to get to work, wasn't it :confused: :confused: ;)

As for LHG and other 'additional' payments, interesting to see that the latest pay offer seems to be heading back down the road of paying for a bit of this, a bit of that... More forms to fill in, perhaps?

izzit "tax free?"
or for ATCOs only?
watp,iktch

Chiggy

I am advised by my PCS rep that it applies to us ATSA's too. The payment is taxable and non-pensionable.

Must admit not heard anything about it -

Although in the great scheme of things it is a small amount of money per month, it seems quite a sneaky way of doing things considering the pay deal has not long been published.... surely this should have been mentioned in the deal??

I can't believe that it has just been mooted in the past week - it has taken 2 years to sort the pay deal out and even then it has been put to us late.

Or is this the first time that management have been able to make a descisive descision without far**ng about for months on end?? Knowing the capabilities of our management - I doubt it; This idea must have been floating around for ages, whilst the pay negotiations were happening.

It seems like a case of the management going behind our backs.


.

Is this a case of "I don't get it, why should you??" - (merely playing the Devils Advocate with that comment). It is a payment we are told about in T&Cs - if people choose to live close to work, then good luck to them.... I for one will choose not to live too close when I move to Swanwick - the house prices are going to increase with such an influx - why should I get less house for my money just to live close??

Yes it is all about personal choices, but thats not the point.

Yes, it can be withdrawn with 6 months notice - so why be so underhand?? :} :}

Considering you've had a good run of luck up to now and bearing in mind it could all go wrong from here on in, the banker is offering you 850 pounds, it's time to make a decision, deal or no deal?

Having HTD itself doesn't particularly bother me, it is a bit of an anathema in todays workplace, what does bother me is why this wasn't included in the latest pay deal, where has it suddenly come from ?
It feels as if every little perk that ATC may have had is being taken away by stealth.

Apparently it's all to do with making £1.5 million savings in the CP2 budget and therefore NOT linked to the pay deal... It will be subject to a seperate ballot at some point in the near future.

Well, your devilishness, I can assure you it isn't anything to do with jealousy. If it was I'd live in Prestwick and have a go at people who live in Troon as well as those who commute from Glasgow. I just feel that HTD is a relic of a bygone age.

Does anyone know of any other organisation that pays an allowance to its employees merely for turning up to work? Well, apart from pilots...

The military do in some cases........

But thats not really my point - it just seems, as Flower says, that the management are trying to slip it through the back door when everyone is thinking about the pay deal.

Although not that large an amount of money even if on top whack (£44.60 before tax); it does become significant to those on the full HTD when you consider it against the cost of living pay rise we are being offered.

(Granted we get an uplift of one spine point in April - approximately £1500 per annum or £125 per month pre tax but then take £44.60 off that and it starts to erode the pay deal even further)

So in that instance; those not on HTD are gaining in the long term if it gets binned because any pay deal is to them, what they will get, not what they will get minus HTD

When HTD was first introduced in 1974 it was as an inducement to LATCC to change from a 4 watch to 5 watch system. There was a lot of opposition to working AAOMMNNSOO and most preferred to work A M/N S O tha advantage being that you worked 18 hours in 24 0745-1245 and then 1945-0745 !!! It was calculated on the difference between the private car rate [business rate] and the public transport rate. The rationale was that the new shift times would mean that you could not use public transport in order to get to and from home on all the shifts. Currently the Business rate is 40p a mile and the lower rate is around 14p [not sure exactly]. For 18 months the allowance followed this formula starting at 2.2p per mile and by 1976 was at 4p per mile! Then came the oil crisis in 1976 and the CAA froze the allowance at 4p. This was because the difference between the 2 rates was increasing rapidly. It was agreed that this was a short term measure and as soon as Govt pay policy permitted they would reinstate the difference!! 30 years later they have not yet got round to hiking HTD up to the 26p per mile that it should now be at
Well there is a bit of background information from an old wrinklie that was part of the IPCS [ATCA union] that negotiated this deal. Incidentally as an ATCA who lived in Reading and worked at LATCC the HTD was equivalent to 25% of my gross pay in 1975!! How times change!!!

is £850 being offered to everyone, or just those who receive HTD?

Everyone get's £250, then you get an amount based on how much HTD you receive making a total of just over £1300 before tax as a maximum.

Nope. It is £250 plus twice your annual allowance. So those who live next door to work and can't be arsed claiming will get £250. I get £11.89 per month so will receive £250+£285.36. Those on the full whack of £44.60 get £1070+£250. All taxed of course. And also asuming I read the notice right...

I will lose out after a smidgen under four years but I will still be voting for it as £300 in my mit is better than eight quid a month. Especially when the management could conceivably withdraw it anyway.

Have they indicated when the vote for this or payout would be?

Votes in by Feb 8th I seem to recall.

IMJS can you claim HTD in a country with no cars just horse and carts??

The ballot papers for the HTD 'buy out' will be issued after the conclusion of the pay ballot, if it is a 'yes' vote.

If the pay ballot is a 'no' and they have to renegotiate pay then the HTD ballot will be delayed until after that vote.

To find out how much you will be 'paid' before tax under the proposed buy out. Look at your November pay slip multiply your HTD by 24 and add £250 et voila your pre tax offer :)

Not quite. Luton and Southampton do not get HTD and therefore will not get the buy out.

Hi Folks,
Was looking at HTD on the intranet the other day.....didnt know it existed until that point. Question is (I couldnt see any answers in T&C's), are ATCO T&D eligible or only for you valid lot?? :confused: :)
As I say, no hint on the 'net to say one way or t'other.
Anyone.......

Spamcan

it depends if your unit is in receipt of the HTD pauments. I was eligible when I was training

I currently receive HTD, but will soon be transferring to a unit where, apparently, they do not receive it. Will I still be eligible for the bigger pay-off, or am I about to be screwed over?:ouch:

With regard to this payoff, why not just give everyone £300 a year extra on their salaries, this would be pensionable and everyone would get the same. BTW I don't think that we should agree, after all why should we give up somthing that is a 'perk' for a one off payment. Just my unimportant thoughts.

As has been pointed out, and as far as I know, HTD can be abolished at any time by NATS. I can imagine that's what they'd do if the vote was no.

As I understand it will be based on your November salary so you should be ok....


Note the word "Should"!!!!!!!!!

Do we know if this HTD "deal or no deal" is just for our annual allowance or will our claims for extra attendance travel (overtime days) be included/void as well?

Overtime days mileage claims are not Home To Duty. they are additional attendances payments and are not part of the HTD agreement

Thanks TATC :ok:

I vote we keep HTD.
As an ATCO with a good few years left (I hope!) in the long run I will lose out. We are hearing differing opinions up hear and I need to get a definitive answer from my union rep. According to my understanding and the employee handbook it states that changes to HTD need to be negotiated. Does that not imply that management cannot simply then refuse to pay it? Sounds a bit like scare mongering on their behalf. ;)

Having spoke to my union rep it appears that management only need to giv 6 months notice of withdrawal, which would mean we would lose out more by not taking the carrot.

According to the Employee Handbook

Foreword 1.3 Page2 of 215

"These terms and conditions form the basis of the individual's Contract of Employment and are subject to collective bargaining under arrangements set out in NATS doc. No.3 entitled 'Procedures for Relations Between Management and Recognised Trade Unions' (commonly known as the 'Green Book').
So surely management can't simply withdraw the payment and my Union rep agrees. In theory they can tell us we are getting a 20% pay cut but we wouldn't stand for it nor would the Union. They would have to negotiate something else. This saving is basically to help NERL with the savings they must make at the detriment yet again of the airports!

That would depend on the wording of the original Home to Duty Agreement, and wether there was a clause in it which states that management could withdraw it with 6 months notice - which is what my union rep told me there was

So Hootin and a roarin'

is it the ATCOs who work at the area centres that are really to blame?? Or do you just have a chip on your shoulder??

It is not a Tower/centre issue, regardless of money savings; it is a management/coal face worker issue.

I get sick of hearing poeple from airports bleating about how hard done by they are in comparison to people at centres. Yes, some airport ATCOs are underpaid, but this issue affects us all (apart from the couple of places that do not get HTD at the moment).

There was a comment recently on a thread about the pay rise, stating that it would be voted in because the Centres won again, whilst the airports were getting screwed! How the heck that was worked out considering its a percentage deal across the board, I don't know.

It's those sort of pathetic comments and in-fighting that must make the senior management rub their hands with glee.

UKATCO 535, as the starter of the thread I certainly did not want this to turn into an ACC vs Airport issue, which it is not. I was not aware that management could give six months notice on withdrawing HTD, I beleive (and it depends who you talk to) that this was a negotiation with management (albeit many years ago) and anything other than what we get now would also need to be negotiated.
If that is the case I would vote against the buy out, becuase, irrespective of how much or how little you get, in the long run you are worse off. Take the carrot and it's gone forever. Maybe there is a union rep out there who can get a definitive answer on this.

UKATCO535

"is it the ATCOs who work at the area centres that are really to blame?? Or do you just have a chip on your shoulder??

It is not a Tower/centre issue, regardless of money savings; it is a management/coal face worker issue."

It's a huge chip thanks due to the continuous frustration in having no say when it comes to voting with the current set up with this Union!!!! We should have all stuck together before the Banding system was brought in which didn't benefit all, now we feel you have a cheek telling us to stick together.

However I was simply making the point that the airports run a very tight ship with very little money being spent yet we make the profit and are continuosly told that we are given a pay rise on the coat tails of NERL, yet this HTD vote is to help NERL save 50 million quid and we all suffer from it.

Keep the HTD!!!