The Day Britain Stopped - TV Programme
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The Day Britain Stopped - TV Programme
Been reading about this on the NATS intranet. Sounds like the usual media load of bollocks about ATC. Wouldn't even talk to ATC folks! Ah well!
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Heres what Kenny Everit has to say about it - for those who dont read their emails and those who are non-nats
The Day Britain Stopped - Message for All Staff
You may well have seen trailers for, or read about, a forthcoming BBC
television programme called "The Day Britain Stopped", to be broadcast on
Tuesday 13 May at 9pm on BBC 2.
The programme, which calls itself a drama-documentary, is intended to
highlight lack of investment in Britain's transport infrastructure. It uses
a fictional scenario in which a national rail strike leads to gridlock on
the M25 and surrounding areas. Air traffic controllers are unable to get to
work and those that are there, stay on. Due to an error by a controller in
these difficult circumstances, a mid-air collision occurs near Heathrow,
with severe loss of life in the air and on the ground.
NATS has repeatedly explained to the programme makers the procedures and
failsafe mechanisms that are in place to prevent exactly the sort of
incident portrayed, but they have been reluctant to talk with us and we are
very concerned that the programme fails to meet its obligations to be
factually accurate. Consequently, it is likely to affect our reputation. Our
concerns are shared by the airlines, unions, BAA, CAA and the Department for
Transport.
Despite repeated requests, we have not yet been able to obtain a tape or
script of the programme. This is most unsatisfactory and also, I believe,
unfair. I have taken our concerns directly to Gavyn Davies, the Chairman of
the BBC Board of Governors, and as a result, we hope - even at this late
stage - to be able to view the programme and comment on it before
transmission.
The programme is already generating public interest so can I ask you, as
always, to refer any media calls you may receive to the Press Office at One
Kemble Street.
Please be assured that NATS is doing everything it can to ensure that our
concerns are properly examined before the programme is broadcast. I will
keep you informed of developments.
RICHARD EVERITT
Chief Executive
The Day Britain Stopped - Message for All Staff
You may well have seen trailers for, or read about, a forthcoming BBC
television programme called "The Day Britain Stopped", to be broadcast on
Tuesday 13 May at 9pm on BBC 2.
The programme, which calls itself a drama-documentary, is intended to
highlight lack of investment in Britain's transport infrastructure. It uses
a fictional scenario in which a national rail strike leads to gridlock on
the M25 and surrounding areas. Air traffic controllers are unable to get to
work and those that are there, stay on. Due to an error by a controller in
these difficult circumstances, a mid-air collision occurs near Heathrow,
with severe loss of life in the air and on the ground.
NATS has repeatedly explained to the programme makers the procedures and
failsafe mechanisms that are in place to prevent exactly the sort of
incident portrayed, but they have been reluctant to talk with us and we are
very concerned that the programme fails to meet its obligations to be
factually accurate. Consequently, it is likely to affect our reputation. Our
concerns are shared by the airlines, unions, BAA, CAA and the Department for
Transport.
Despite repeated requests, we have not yet been able to obtain a tape or
script of the programme. This is most unsatisfactory and also, I believe,
unfair. I have taken our concerns directly to Gavyn Davies, the Chairman of
the BBC Board of Governors, and as a result, we hope - even at this late
stage - to be able to view the programme and comment on it before
transmission.
The programme is already generating public interest so can I ask you, as
always, to refer any media calls you may receive to the Press Office at One
Kemble Street.
Please be assured that NATS is doing everything it can to ensure that our
concerns are properly examined before the programme is broadcast. I will
keep you informed of developments.
RICHARD EVERITT
Chief Executive
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The Beeb sayeth; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ed/3010345.stm
Whilst official rhetoric suggests that technology and human resources will be able to to keep up with predicted increases in air traffic volumes, the controllers themselves paint a different picture.
"An air crash is more likely than you would think. The chances of an accident are increasing by the day." "There is no spare capacity within the system anymore. Delays build up very quickly." " Air space is becoming saturated and we get nervous in holding situations."
Controllers speaking confidentially painted a 'gloomy picture'
More and more overload reports are being filed. Morale has plummeted because it is now harder to take leave. Without exception, everyone now retires early.
"An air crash is more likely than you would think. The chances of an accident are increasing by the day." "There is no spare capacity within the system anymore. Delays build up very quickly." " Air space is becoming saturated and we get nervous in holding situations."
Controllers speaking confidentially painted a 'gloomy picture'
More and more overload reports are being filed. Morale has plummeted because it is now harder to take leave. Without exception, everyone now retires early.
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If NATS had their way H.G.Wells "War of the Worlds" would be banned.
Its only TV and as its "Too Highbrow" for the average moron viewer, those that do watch can form their own opinions.
I hear that "I'm an ATC -get me out of here" is a forthcoming live outside broadcast from Swanwick.
Its only TV and as its "Too Highbrow" for the average moron viewer, those that do watch can form their own opinions.
I hear that "I'm an ATC -get me out of here" is a forthcoming live outside broadcast from Swanwick.
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Hi all,
Watched the last half hour of said program. What a load of s**t.
There was me thinking i had missed something when they started showing footage of a service being held for the victims in March 2004 (didnt realise it was a docusoap thing, and so got vey confused and started checking calendars and teletext etc).
As for the "incident", it was down to a controller not slowing an aircraft down on final approach. Now i am a mere student pilot, but i thought it was the pilots responsibility for his/her speed on final approach.
Anyway, glad i only saw the last half hour.
Watched the last half hour of said program. What a load of s**t.
There was me thinking i had missed something when they started showing footage of a service being held for the victims in March 2004 (didnt realise it was a docusoap thing, and so got vey confused and started checking calendars and teletext etc).
As for the "incident", it was down to a controller not slowing an aircraft down on final approach. Now i am a mere student pilot, but i thought it was the pilots responsibility for his/her speed on final approach.
Anyway, glad i only saw the last half hour.
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Apologies guys - another non-controller here.
AIUI, no speed control may be imposed within 4dme.
The speed control wasn't the "cause" of the incident portrayed - merely one of the circumstances. It contributed to a missed approach and I doubt it is particularly uncommon for whatever reason. It was the MA itself to which the finger was pointed.
I found it laughable that they suggested the tower controller was unaware of the spacing and that a missed approach was likely.
The programme was produced in a sensationalist manner, however the director and producer care to justify it, but I do think that many of the factors which were used as plot devices are quite feasible, even if the conclusions were not those of trained people (thinking specifically about manpower shortages amongst controllers)
I look forward to the next programme, where the scenario is worked by actual controllers :-)
AIUI, no speed control may be imposed within 4dme.
The speed control wasn't the "cause" of the incident portrayed - merely one of the circumstances. It contributed to a missed approach and I doubt it is particularly uncommon for whatever reason. It was the MA itself to which the finger was pointed.
I found it laughable that they suggested the tower controller was unaware of the spacing and that a missed approach was likely.
The programme was produced in a sensationalist manner, however the director and producer care to justify it, but I do think that many of the factors which were used as plot devices are quite feasible, even if the conclusions were not those of trained people (thinking specifically about manpower shortages amongst controllers)
I look forward to the next programme, where the scenario is worked by actual controllers :-)
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Hello all,
As a better than averagely informed civilian I am dismayed at the responses given here by those "in the industry".
The "everything is alright" attitude coupled with "how dare anyone question us" allied to the "no whistle blowers allowed" is what is wrong with this country and is what the whole point of the programme
As a better than averagely informed civilian I am dismayed at the responses given here by those "in the industry".
The "everything is alright" attitude coupled with "how dare anyone question us" allied to the "no whistle blowers allowed" is what is wrong with this country and is what the whole point of the programme
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I can't possibly agree with you Bill. This programme was sensationalist rubbish. I watched it because we had been "warned2 about it at work, and I expected that NATS had over reacted. how wrong I was. ATCOs unable to contact the tower because they were busy getting a Shamrock off the runway? No Go Around alarms? Heathrow ATCOs could get to work but LTCC ATCOs couldn't? Final Director bandboxed? bandboxed with who for God's sake?
Which bit REALLY got to me? The sight of an ATCO led away from TC by the police. I am certain that would NOT have happened as shown.
Must say, I am impressed that you can land two burning aircraft on Hounslow and only have a handful of fatalities on the ground, although most of the shots of the wreckage (1 mile from Heathrow) were actually filmed in neighbouring Ealing. Should have hit Heston/Cranford.
Total nonsense.
As for Newsnight - fair play to the professor of Transport (or whatever) who rubbished the entire programme. But who was that so called Aviation Expwert? I would love to know why he is EX CAA...and if he has a personal axe to grind - because that's how it appeared to me.
Chips
Hounslow Resident, and certainly not a NATS Cheerleader
Which bit REALLY got to me? The sight of an ATCO led away from TC by the police. I am certain that would NOT have happened as shown.
Must say, I am impressed that you can land two burning aircraft on Hounslow and only have a handful of fatalities on the ground, although most of the shots of the wreckage (1 mile from Heathrow) were actually filmed in neighbouring Ealing. Should have hit Heston/Cranford.
Total nonsense.
As for Newsnight - fair play to the professor of Transport (or whatever) who rubbished the entire programme. But who was that so called Aviation Expwert? I would love to know why he is EX CAA...and if he has a personal axe to grind - because that's how it appeared to me.
Chips
Hounslow Resident, and certainly not a NATS Cheerleader
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I agree Chips - lots of technical errors!
I find it interesting that a departure to Bilbao turned left of 09R towards the north for a start.
And the controller telling a Lufthansa to "come off Landboard (I assume Lambourne) heading 270" How the hell did she validate and who is her LCE?!
I agree - I've never managed to bandbox FIN before.
Still, the research was carried out slightly more thouroughly than 'Pushing Tin' with such lines as:
"callsign, maintain 250kts to the marker or I'll have to spin you"
Pish!
AI
I find it interesting that a departure to Bilbao turned left of 09R towards the north for a start.
And the controller telling a Lufthansa to "come off Landboard (I assume Lambourne) heading 270" How the hell did she validate and who is her LCE?!
I agree - I've never managed to bandbox FIN before.
Still, the research was carried out slightly more thouroughly than 'Pushing Tin' with such lines as:
"callsign, maintain 250kts to the marker or I'll have to spin you"
Pish!
AI
Last edited by Aluminium Importer; 14th May 2003 at 08:33.
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Oh dear
Dramatically it was fantastic.
From an ATC point of view as a Heathrow controller it was utter tripe.
1) If it happened as portrayed the FIN controller was in no way responsible for the collision, only the go-around.
2) The tower controller (arrrivals) would've seen the two inbounds catching up and would've done something about it themselves. What's the point of Fin phoning up when the CSA's inside of 2 miles?????????? hyelllow!
3)Arrivals controller would've warned the deps controller who in the event of a go-around would've turned the outbound out of the way, not to mention possibly even left it on the ground, due to the possibility of a go-around.
4)Pleased to see someone else has mentioned the existence of the go-around alarm
5)Convenient for the programme makers that the CSA didn't fly the missed approach procedure, effectively turning himself out of the departures path.
6)Has TCAS been outlawed in the future.
7)How many Bilbao flights do BA operate from EGLL? (none) and if they did what in fcuk$ name was it doing on a BPK departure (thats a northbound to above average informed members of the public - Spain being well to the south)
Come on, How many other things did they get wrong??????
I'm not saying what happened couldn't happen, god forbid it ever did, but it wouldn't happen in the shamefully over dramatic way the TV programme made out.
The biggest threat we have is from foreign airlines departing and changing frequency to radar without being instructed if we then have a go-around it can be a buttock clencher.
The one thing they did get right.............
Woman are dangerous controllers
Dramatically it was fantastic.
From an ATC point of view as a Heathrow controller it was utter tripe.
1) If it happened as portrayed the FIN controller was in no way responsible for the collision, only the go-around.
2) The tower controller (arrrivals) would've seen the two inbounds catching up and would've done something about it themselves. What's the point of Fin phoning up when the CSA's inside of 2 miles?????????? hyelllow!
3)Arrivals controller would've warned the deps controller who in the event of a go-around would've turned the outbound out of the way, not to mention possibly even left it on the ground, due to the possibility of a go-around.
4)Pleased to see someone else has mentioned the existence of the go-around alarm
5)Convenient for the programme makers that the CSA didn't fly the missed approach procedure, effectively turning himself out of the departures path.
6)Has TCAS been outlawed in the future.
7)How many Bilbao flights do BA operate from EGLL? (none) and if they did what in fcuk$ name was it doing on a BPK departure (thats a northbound to above average informed members of the public - Spain being well to the south)
Come on, How many other things did they get wrong??????
I'm not saying what happened couldn't happen, god forbid it ever did, but it wouldn't happen in the shamefully over dramatic way the TV programme made out.
The biggest threat we have is from foreign airlines departing and changing frequency to radar without being instructed if we then have a go-around it can be a buttock clencher.
The one thing they did get right.............
Woman are dangerous controllers
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Mr Chips.
So you are still alive !!
TV Prog. Utter nonsence, the way it was portrayed, but the mid air will happen. Hope it won't land on your house.
So where is my record ? You have had it 5 years now.
Mr G.
So you are still alive !!
TV Prog. Utter nonsence, the way it was portrayed, but the mid air will happen. Hope it won't land on your house.
So where is my record ? You have had it 5 years now.
Mr G.
So for those of us that aren't familiar with Heathrow procedures, what should happen with a missed approach on one runway and a simultaneous departure crossing the extended centreline of the arrival runway?
It's clear from the SIDs and IAPs that the procedures are not self-deconflicting. How are the aircraft separated and what safeguards are there for, e.g. comms failure?
It's clear from the SIDs and IAPs that the procedures are not self-deconflicting. How are the aircraft separated and what safeguards are there for, e.g. comms failure?
Last edited by bookworm; 14th May 2003 at 16:06.
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Did they purposefully forget to mention TCAS,or is there some rule that says it doesn't operate at certain altittude?Could this have prevented the collision?
777 (Trainee ATCO starting Mar04).
777 (Trainee ATCO starting Mar04).
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Well, the whole thing started with a "high speed train crash" close to Edinbugh Waverly Station. Call me picky, but how many high speed trains go through the Capital City with out stopping? It all went down hill from then on. Only thing missing was the canned laughter.
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Yes, I too was somewhat puzzled by the high speed train crash "a few hundred yards from Waverley station" 
but I think the more vital facts about the air crash seem to be lacking too....
In my position (a mere ATPL student) I am unable to form an informed verdict. Like bookworm I too would like to know what happens in the tower during a missed approach at LHR to ensure aircraft seperation. In the programme there was virtually no communication between the 3 ATCOs controlling the approaching and departing A/C!?
I have heard a 'go around alarm' mentioned, anyone care to elaborate?
Cheers,
TQ
but I think the more vital facts about the air crash seem to be lacking too....In my position (a mere ATPL student) I am unable to form an informed verdict. Like bookworm I too would like to know what happens in the tower during a missed approach at LHR to ensure aircraft seperation. In the programme there was virtually no communication between the 3 ATCOs controlling the approaching and departing A/C!?
I have heard a 'go around alarm' mentioned, anyone care to elaborate?Cheers,
TQ