Who's at fault?
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Who's at fault?
I was flying VFR using a light aircraft roating towards a relatively small airport of X-town. If the ATCO reads this I am sure that you recognise the case.
Before I entered the controlled zone I said "presently overhead X-town", "I am (just) about to enter the zone in order to land on runway XX". I'm unsure if I mentioned the work "just". I got an affirmative answer from the ATCO. If you are overhead X-town but still outside the controlled airspace, you are just seconds away from the zone as most part of X-town is inside controlled airspace. I continued to fly into the zone.
The ATCO must have misunderstood me and probably assumed that I meant "will enter the zone via X-town" and "ask for permission to enter the zone, will report when entering".
I thought that the ATCO understood that I also entered the zone. I never heard anything like "report when entering the zone" which the tower normally says.
I heard on the radio "I will file a report on you" just on final. He couldn't have waited to tell me that until I was safe on the ground? :)
I understand that the tower doesn't get too excited when someone is entering the zone unexpected while the tower is busy with an ILS approach (special VFR at the moment). I am everything but an experienced pilot, but was I the one that made the big mistake here?
Just out of curiosity, what legal actions might be taken against you if you accidently do enter a controlled airspace without a correct clearance? However, I hope that the tower will save some trees by understanding the fact that I did get the point to work on my RT procedures.
Before I entered the controlled zone I said "presently overhead X-town", "I am (just) about to enter the zone in order to land on runway XX". I'm unsure if I mentioned the work "just". I got an affirmative answer from the ATCO. If you are overhead X-town but still outside the controlled airspace, you are just seconds away from the zone as most part of X-town is inside controlled airspace. I continued to fly into the zone.
The ATCO must have misunderstood me and probably assumed that I meant "will enter the zone via X-town" and "ask for permission to enter the zone, will report when entering".
I thought that the ATCO understood that I also entered the zone. I never heard anything like "report when entering the zone" which the tower normally says.
I heard on the radio "I will file a report on you" just on final. He couldn't have waited to tell me that until I was safe on the ground? :)
I understand that the tower doesn't get too excited when someone is entering the zone unexpected while the tower is busy with an ILS approach (special VFR at the moment). I am everything but an experienced pilot, but was I the one that made the big mistake here?
Just out of curiosity, what legal actions might be taken against you if you accidently do enter a controlled airspace without a correct clearance? However, I hope that the tower will save some trees by understanding the fact that I did get the point to work on my RT procedures.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Hmmm....
Lots of assumptions required but here's my (ATCO) interpretation.
The airfield to which you were flying enjoys the protection of a Class D Control Zone (CTR). To enter the zone you NEED a clearance, if only along the lines of "Enter the CTR via XYZ, not above 1500ft, VFR".
You must not enter the zone without a positive clearance. Assumptions don't count. If unsure you must ask if you really do have a clearance to enter.
CTR entry points are often at the boundaries of the Zone, and it's good practice to call at least 5 mins (or 15nm) before you get there.
You also said:
Not true. Ever. They will.
Okay. So what's to be done? I suggest you treat this as a learning experience. Go and visit the tower. How? Give them a ring and explain. They'll be happy to see you and more than happy to explain why entering any CTR without a clearance is a Very Bad Idea. (They won't bite you either!)
Legal actions? Not usually, as long as you have learned from the experience, just a letter from CAA SRG "offering appropriate advice".
Hope this helps
Rgds BEX
Lots of assumptions required but here's my (ATCO) interpretation.
The airfield to which you were flying enjoys the protection of a Class D Control Zone (CTR). To enter the zone you NEED a clearance, if only along the lines of "Enter the CTR via XYZ, not above 1500ft, VFR".
You must not enter the zone without a positive clearance. Assumptions don't count. If unsure you must ask if you really do have a clearance to enter.
CTR entry points are often at the boundaries of the Zone, and it's good practice to call at least 5 mins (or 15nm) before you get there.
You also said:
I understand that the tower doesn't get too excited when someone is entering the zone unexpected while the tower is busy with an ILS approach
Okay. So what's to be done? I suggest you treat this as a learning experience. Go and visit the tower. How? Give them a ring and explain. They'll be happy to see you and more than happy to explain why entering any CTR without a clearance is a Very Bad Idea. (They won't bite you either!)
Legal actions? Not usually, as long as you have learned from the experience, just a letter from CAA SRG "offering appropriate advice".
Hope this helps
Rgds BEX
Excuse me for butting in from the pilots forums. On the basis of what you have written it would seem to have been a bit of a misunderstanding between both of you and it takes two to tango. However it is really the pilots responsibility to make sure that he has clearance to carry out a particular action. If in doubt ask, it also goes to show the importance of standard RT even in a VFR environment. I know it's not easy when you are not that experienced but if you had said something along the lines of "overhead xyz and request zone entry for landing on runway xx" you may have avoided the situation.
You don't mention what happened once you were on the ground but I think you will find that a phone call or even better a quick visit will smooth over most situations without it going any further.
Good luck.
You don't mention what happened once you were on the ground but I think you will find that a phone call or even better a quick visit will smooth over most situations without it going any further.
Good luck.
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i as an atco agree with both the above
your fault (but with an atc prob too)
prosecution is down too the caa (srg) and highly unlikley
that having been said a r22 pilot is being prosecuted for flying thru final approach of manchester r/way 06r at 2000a whilst knowing his position from gps onboard
avoiding weather was his excuse
but that was gross stupidity (action and excuse) this sort of thing doesn't happen very often and your situation does not imho warrent such action
your fault (but with an atc prob too)
prosecution is down too the caa (srg) and highly unlikley
that having been said a r22 pilot is being prosecuted for flying thru final approach of manchester r/way 06r at 2000a whilst knowing his position from gps onboard
avoiding weather was his excuse
but that was gross stupidity (action and excuse) this sort of thing doesn't happen very often and your situation does not imho warrent such action
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"presently overhead X-town", "I am (just) about to enter the zone in order to land on runway XX".
Previous to that transmission had you requested joining instruction?
Previous to that transmission had you requested joining instruction?
