UK ATCO Redundancies
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escaped.atco. I'm not quite sure why you keep talking down ATC. It is an expensive part of the infrastructure but is essential. If you cut staff, it is very difficult to get back to a position where you can operate as you were last year. If you cut wages then some staff will just retire early, again leaving you short in the future. And let's face it, the ATC business was looking into an abyss of being short of staff before this crisis. Also, why would new people come in, devote their entire career to the job, when what was previously a good secure job, has now become insecure especially when you are training for 2 years before even having a chance of validating on a lower salary than before. Basically, it's the last part of the operation to cut back too much. It takes years to get an operation able to operate at an airfield that can shift 40-50 aircraft an hour all the time. You can't cut it and then suddenly turn the tap on again. Maybe if this situation lasts for a lot longer then there will be cuts, but it will be one of the last things to be cut. Just my opinion.
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I don't mean to talk ATC down, I do believe however that as a group we need to be realistic regarding the state of our industry. Pilots are essential, they were also expensive, they have borne the brunt of cost cutting in many companies - both job cuts and degraded T&Cs. Ground handlers are also essential, they are relatively inexpensive, they have also borne a heavy price in job cuts. I suppose my point is that as a group we cannot expect to survive this crisis unscathed - thats not talking ATC down, its just my opinion that everyone within aviation will be affected in now way or another. When someone gets in their head that they're essential and effectively untouchable then thats a dangerous place to be. Remember every business is run by accountants - people that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. If they can save a few quid over a relatively short term period then the problems in a few years will be just that - not something to worry about just now. I have sat in meetings with airport managers and believe me they only see the large wage bill from ATC, if it can be reduced then they really don't care the potential issues that might be there at a later time.
I take great pride in my profession, always have done. Ultimately though the older I get the more I realise we are just numbers on a spreadsheet in an accountants office.
I take great pride in my profession, always have done. Ultimately though the older I get the more I realise we are just numbers on a spreadsheet in an accountants office.
I don't mean to talk ATC down, I do believe however that as a group we need to be realistic regarding the state of our industry. Pilots are essential, they were also expensive, they have borne the brunt of cost cutting in many companies - both job cuts and degraded T&Cs. Ground handlers are also essential, they are relatively inexpensive, they have also borne a heavy price in job cuts. I suppose my point is that as a group we cannot expect to survive this crisis unscathed - thats not talking ATC down, its just my opinion that everyone within aviation will be affected in now way or another. When someone gets in their head that they're essential and effectively untouchable then thats a dangerous place to be. Remember every business is run by accountants - people that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. If they can save a few quid over a relatively short term period then the problems in a few years will be just that - not something to worry about just now. I have sat in meetings with airport managers and believe me they only see the large wage bill from ATC, if it can be reduced then they really don't care the potential issues that might be there at a later time.
I take great pride in my profession, always have done. Ultimately though the older I get the more I realise we are just numbers on a spreadsheet in an accountants office.
I take great pride in my profession, always have done. Ultimately though the older I get the more I realise we are just numbers on a spreadsheet in an accountants office.
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At the moment we are gardeners looking after concrete blocks. The only thing keeping us in a job is the hope that there'll be a garden again.
It's unsustainable.
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I think the current situation had nothing to do with accountants as far as cause goes, but everything to do with accountants as to how its handled. Can you imagine contract negotiations over the foreseeable future? The accountant will be saying what they can afford and what they are prepared to pay, it will be up to the ATC provider to work out how to make it fit. I refer back to my previous post, the biggest part of any contract is in all probability is the wages bill. An uncomfortable fact but there we are.
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Is it going to get better
Feeling a bit in limbo now, tempted to start a business venture. Genuinely worried that ATSA’s jobs could be unsustainable, on the other hand don’t want to walk away if redundancy package is coming. Any thoughts people
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justbeingnosey, not sure who exactly you work for but I'm hearing the threats of cutbacks have been reduced by a very large ANSP in the UK. They have seen fit to pay out bonuses to all staff and an extra bonus to management grades? This is just after paying out a large amount of VR packages with amounts that would settle the debt of a small third world country! It must warm the hearts of all the employees to know that even in these times of fiscal hardship that the gravy train has not yet been derailed. Should make for some interesting conversations at the next round of contract renewals though! 
I’m sure you’re correct in the immediate term. However;
NATS recruitment frozen until God knows when.
Non NATS ain’t going to be sending people on courses unless absolutely necessary.
Doubt there will be many willing to risk leaving the mil to go civil any time soon.
Self funders? Forget it...
Can anyone else see where this is going?
Give it 2 years... oh no, we have no ATCOs again...
NATS recruitment frozen until God knows when.
Non NATS ain’t going to be sending people on courses unless absolutely necessary.
Doubt there will be many willing to risk leaving the mil to go civil any time soon.
Self funders? Forget it...
Can anyone else see where this is going?
Give it 2 years... oh no, we have no ATCOs again...
Who’d have thought it?
In Australia we’ve gone from reduced and standby rosters during the height of lock-downs, followed by a redundancy program, to multiple shifts that available for overtime that have to be filled on every group. Multiple towers are closing early most nights because the staff simply don’t exist anymore.
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And so the cycle continues. I have seen it many times over my career as have many others on this forum I'd guess. Each time previously, wages have invariably gone up as ATCOs migrate to where they can get the best deal and lifestyle, smaller units struggle as the larger units hoover up the best qualified. Its lucky NATS have plenty of trainees that they pushed through last year just waiting to be given live training and validated, that'll help the shortage. Or maybe not, if I recall they sacked all their trainees while at the same time handing out large redundancy payments to non-operational staff!
not for the time being anyway
And so the cycle continues. I have seen it many times over my career as have many others on this forum I'd guess. Each time previously, wages have invariably gone up as ATCOs migrate to where they can get the best deal and lifestyle, smaller units struggle as the larger units hoover up the best qualified. Its lucky NATS have plenty of trainees that they pushed through last year just waiting to be given live training and validated, that'll help the shortage. Or maybe not, if I recall they sacked all their trainees while at the same time handing out large redundancy payments to non-operational staff!
I had just been selected for Air Traffic Control Assistant (ATCA; the 'old' name for ATSAs) duties in December 1967 by the Board of Trade; suddenly the government decided there would be a wholesale 'freeze' on ALL civil service recruitment (including ATCOs and ATCAs) for 12 months and I wasn't called forward until January 1969.
Last edited by chevvron; 22nd May 2022 at 11:12.
