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UK ATCO Redundancies

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UK ATCO Redundancies

Old 28th Aug 2020, 12:14
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: T.C.
Age: 52
Posts: 240
Personally I think it is a bit sad that people don’t have a”life” away from work, and thus get bored in “retirement”

I actually struggle to squeeze work in, oh well only 29 pay slips to go.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 18:02
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: hampshire
Posts: 12
Redundancy

Fact is that by October everyone will be back. With traffic likely to be diminished severely until well into next year I cannot see operational staff escaping cuts. ATSA’s were deemed at risk before the pandemic, and I will be the first to admit that most times we are looking for something to do. Personally I hope VR is available soon
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 18:54
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Norfolk
Age: 65
Posts: 67
Quite agree! I retired 7 years ago and while I miss many of the great people I worked with,I certainly don't miss the job. Bored? Not a chance!Probably sure we know each other,enjoy the next 29 months.😁
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 21:35
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Out on the bike in Northumberland
Posts: 506
Been retired just over a year, after 40 years I wasn't sure how I would cope but although I miss the people and the banter I have no compulsion to put on a headset! Yes I look up at the circuit at Eshott, or an overflight, with a ex professional eye, but its no more than curiosity - there is so much more to life, was perhaps the best decision I ever made and have no regrets about not carrying on into my sixties.



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Old 30th Aug 2020, 13:03
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Costa del Swanwick
Posts: 817
Originally Posted by justbeingnosey View Post
Fact is that by October everyone will be back. With traffic likely to be diminished severely until well into next year I cannot see operational staff escaping cuts. ATSA’s were deemed at risk before the pandemic, and I will be the first to admit that most times we are looking for something to do. Personally I hope VR is available soon
You have my best wishes. Seeing a job disappear due to technology is bad enough, but then having the pandemic put further nails in the coffin must be really tough.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 13:21
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Going left then going right
Posts: 87
Just wondering, what does a 'blip driver' do and is it a worthwhile job?

The original description on the HIAL careers site is no longer showing.

...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Through View Post
HIAL still recruiting:

https://hialcareers.co.uk/
Look at the small print for the “blip driver” job description. They are already detailing the changes to terms and conditions and pay scales.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 13:32
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: SE England
Posts: 588
a blip-driver (sometimes known as a pseudo-pilot) sits at the other end of the radio from a trainee controller pretending to be the pilots, manipulating the simulated aircraft the controller is working on radar or VCR before being set lose on the real ones. It probably doesn't have a long-term prospect in HIAL, but in NATS such jobs often lead to other positions and many ATCOs, ATSAs, simulator specialists and others started out there.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 15:04
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Going left then going right
Posts: 87
Many thanks. every day is a school day.
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Old 14th Sep 2020, 09:21
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: next door to the pub
Posts: 189
HIAL

The ‘blippie’ job was to work in the new training/contingency centre in Inverness as part of the ATMS project so lots of career opportunities.

Speaking of which, vacancies for an assistant and 2 ADI/APS controllers at INV to be advertised shortly

Rgds,

FT
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Old 14th Sep 2020, 15:09
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 837
If there is anyone out there who got caught up in the Covid 19 layoffs and wants to have a more relaxed life I hear that Thruxton will shortly be looking for an Operations Manager to join their team. Its only A/G (so you will need an ROCC) with day to day management of the aerodrome so don't expect mega bucks.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 12:56
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 15
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...t-b447250.html
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 15:42
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Near VTUU or EGPX
Age: 61
Posts: 300
And here is the same from the horse's mouth

https://nats.aero/blog/2020/09/covid...0J9OAYWtnACNQ0
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 18:38
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: far far away
Posts: 78
It seems a shame that these trainees couldn't have at least finished their course and been left with a student licence. At least they would have had something that might have helped.

Interesting prediction of traffic levels not recovering until 2024/25, that is a long time away. We can only assume that someone doing the figures has factored in natural wastage and worked out that these trainees will have no place for the foreseeable future. As airports approach NATS and other ANSPs with demands to reduce costs in order to ensure their own survival and competitiveness, it is difficult to know where this is all going. Ironically it may be more cost effective to get rid (early retirement, VR etc) of those older and more expensive ATCOs and replace them with trainees on a different contract. I would guess that if NATS had opened their recent VR program to ATCOs, there would have been a stampede for the door by a significant amount, that in turn would have left ample space for the newbies. My suspicion is that the current NATS model and generous T&Cs package is unsustainable, the problem as I have stated previously is that other ATCOs have always benchmarked against NATS. Once NATS decreases T&Cs then others will inevitably follow.

The only saving factor would be a dramatic and sustained aviation recovery, unfortunately this government doesn't seem to think aviation is worth saving at present.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 18:45
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: far far away
Posts: 78
https://nats.aero/blog/2020/02/celeb...r-apprentices/

Reading through this article is actually quite depressing. I really feel sorry for these trainees and can only hope they get the chance to fulfil their dreams some day.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 21:19
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 143
UK ATCO redundancies

Originally Posted by escaped.atco View Post
It seems a shame that these trainees couldn't have at least finished their course and been left with a student licence. At least they would have had something that might have helped.

Interesting prediction of traffic levels not recovering until 2024/25, that is a long time away. We can only assume that someone doing the figures has factored in natural wastage and worked out that these trainees will have no place for the foreseeable future. As airports approach NATS and other ANSPs with demands to reduce costs in order to ensure their own survival and competitiveness, it is difficult to know where this is all going. Ironically it may be more cost effective to get rid (early retirement, VR etc) of those older and more expensive ATCOs and replace them with trainees on a different contract. I would guess that if NATS had opened their recent VR program to ATCOs, there would have been a stampede for the door by a significant amount, that in turn would have left ample space for the newbies. My suspicion is that the current NATS model and generous T&Cs package is unsustainable, the problem as I have stated previously is that other ATCOs have always benchmarked against NATS. Once NATS decreases T&Cs then others will inevitably follow.

The only saving factor would be a dramatic and sustained aviation recovery, unfortunately this government doesn't seem to think aviation is worth saving at present.
I agree, it's horrible for those involved; unfortunately though, there'd be little benefit in completing the process to a student licence, as all those affected were on the area path. Their licence would have a limited value in isolation, they'd only get a credit for Basic, & the rating would only be of value to NATS, which is where we came in. The difficulty with opening the VR window to the operational world, is it puts the operation into immediate risk; those most likely to go, would be those needed either to train the new contingent, or relieve the OJTIs doing the training. It risks putting the company into uncomfortable & difficult terrain with its licence obligations, which no board could countenance. With nearly 300 still in the unit training system, the mitigation is there to make sure the operation can sustain for the time being, albeit it's still going to be very challenging.
I'm in two minds about the T&Cs: on the one hand, income is very much on a downward trend, & if it doesn't come in, it can't go out. On the other, we're again, like it or not, heading towards a situation of insufficient staff, what with natural wastage & the reduction in training capacity. When it does pick up, which it will, there'll be another shortage, which generally drives the price up. It's been the ATC cycle, since long before I joined.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 23:31
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: far far away
Posts: 78
I didn't realise they were area students, that does put a different slant on things although for those affected doesn't make it any better!

Regarding T&Cs, the difficulty will be exactly as described, if the income doesn't come in then it can't go out. If airport A comes to the ANSP and says they can only afford eg 70% of the agreed price then where do the cuts come from? Inevitably it will be less ATCOs or else less expensive ATCOs, less ATCOs may not be feasible to keep the operation going ergo a reduction in T&Cs, perhaps on a temporary basis, will be the other option. Not very palatable but to simply refuse and risk losing everything is also not very palatable. It has the makings of a long winter and some painful conversations are coming, not just NATS but to everyone. We only need to look at our colleagues in the airlines to see the upheaval they have suffered, if we as ATCOs think we are immune then we would be very shortsighted. And I also agree, it is a cyclical process, this appears to have the makings of a particularly harsh downward part of it though. Certainly in the many years I've been working I haven't seen such uncertainty and general pessimism.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 14:25
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 40
Terminated trainees are being told that NATS want to maintain a relationship with them, their training has only been paused and they want trainees to return. They should consider this whole situation as an (unpaid) holding period and not termination. They should also see it as NATS being 'generous' in giving the opportunity to find a new temporary career, get married, have kids etc. and generally have 2 years of freedom to carry on life outside of training....! The gift that keeps on giving, apparently!
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 15:23
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 43
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Originally Posted by Lemonair View Post
Terminated trainees are being told that NATS want to maintain a relationship with them, their training has only been paused and they want trainees to return. They should consider this whole situation as an (unpaid) holding period and not termination. They should also see it as NATS being 'generous' in giving the opportunity to find a new temporary career, get married, have kids etc. and generally have 2 years of freedom to carry on life outside of training....! The gift that keeps on giving, apparently!
I hope for the trainees sake.

This could/would be a good time for the union to support those trainees, and hold the company to it's word later. Make sure the company gives them the chance later.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 19:15
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: far far away
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by Lemonair View Post
Terminated trainees are being told that NATS want to maintain a relationship with them, their training has only been paused and they want trainees to return. They should consider this whole situation as an (unpaid) holding period and not termination. They should also see it as NATS being 'generous' in giving the opportunity to find a new temporary career, get married, have kids etc. and generally have 2 years of freedom to carry on life outside of training....! The gift that keeps on giving, apparently!
Please tell me you're being super sarcastic here? I know there has always been the suspicion that NATS managers are brainwashed clones of each other, but surely no-one would have the nerve to try and put a positive spin on this and sell it in a way that the terminated trainee will actually benefit from this?
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 19:42
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by escaped.atco View Post
Please tell me you're being super sarcastic here? I know there has always been the suspicion that NATS managers are brainwashed clones of each other, but surely no-one would have the nerve to try and put a positive spin on this and sell it in a way that the terminated trainee will actually benefit from this?
I'm afraid not. The word 'generous' was genuinely used. I imagine they were told to ham up the positive spin, and some of them decided to take this noticeably further than others.
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