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ATC and FR24.

Old 14th Jun 2020, 23:16
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ATC and FR24.

Hi All, I was under the impression that London Information had no radar service but just used a large map with several Post-It Notes, to contain all their information. However I was given some excellent service from them a few weeks ago, so maybe they are not so antiquated.
I wonder if they are allowed to use FR24 to plot the positions of the aircraft with which they are in contact....?
It would be much cheaper than having a full UK coverage radar system..
.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 23:41
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Given that I believe London Info comes from the London Area Control Centre, they can probably do better than FR24 if a surveillance service is needed.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 06:40
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Providing separation based on crowdsourced data sounds like a great idea to me.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 08:11
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Originally Posted by scifi View Post
Hi All, I was under the impression that London Information had no radar service but just used a large map with several Post-It Notes, to contain all their information. However I was given some excellent service from them a few weeks ago, so maybe they are not so antiquated.
I wonder if they are allowed to use FR24 to plot the positions of the aircraft with which they are in contact....?
It would be much cheaper than having a full UK coverage radar system..
.
London Information is manned/womanned by Area FISOs who are not trained or even licensed to use surveillance based equipment.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 09:27
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I believe London FIR have a radar feed available to them on the wings these days, but they are not a radar service, so no identification nor separation services are available. Why have it then? I cant remember, but I guess something to do with aiding visualising for FIR charges to get clearances and coordinations in good time. Maybe a hint to them that an FIR squawk is nearing a controlled airspace boundary?

No doubt a real FISO will be along shortly to give the full story.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 09:52
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Originally Posted by Dan Dare View Post
I believe London FIR have a radar feed available to them on the wings these days, but they are not a radar service, so no identification nor separation services are available. Why have it then? I cant remember, but I guess something to do with aiding visualising for FIR charges to get clearances and coordinations in good time. Maybe a hint to them that an FIR squawk is nearing a controlled airspace boundary?

No doubt a real FISO will be along shortly to give the full story.
Works like a charm in Denmark, you'll get assigned a squawk, identified, and then if anything also on radar gets close, traffic information.

It is not a required service, so you'll still have to keep a good lookout.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 10:54
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Originally Posted by Dan Dare View Post
I believe London FIR have a radar feed available to them on the wings these days, but they are not a radar service, so no identification nor separation services are available. Why have it then? I cant remember, but I guess something to do with aiding visualising for FIR charges to get clearances and coordinations in good time. Maybe a hint to them that an FIR squawk is nearing a controlled airspace boundary?

No doubt a real FISO will be along shortly to give the full story.
London Info have had a radar display next to their suite since about 2007, possibly earlier, however it is filtered so that only 1177 squawks will show and it covers the whole of the UK up to the border with Scottish airspace and the Area FISOs are not licensed to provide radar sevices using it.
May be different now but when I visited in early 2008, it was positioned some distance from the FISO and the FISO had to leave their operational position to go and look at it if it was reported that an aircraft on their squawk was infringing.
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 09:27
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
it covers the whole of the UK up to the border with Scottish airspace
So England and Wales equates to the whole of the UK?
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 09:50
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Originally Posted by eastern wiseguy View Post
So England and Wales equates to the whole of the UK?
There's also "Scottish Information" who cover the tartan parts.
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 09:59
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Originally Posted by eastern wiseguy View Post
So England and Wales equates to the whole of the UK?
No, it means the whole of the bit of the UK that goes up to the border of the part that's a different bit.
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