CAP 413 Edition 23 - is this what we are now to expect of UK CAA?
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jinglejangles I am not confusing it with 7000 at all.
Many units have "listening" codes which can show who is monitoring the freq so there could be many, and NOT 7000.
Scottish FIS, for example have their own code.
Many units have "listening" codes which can show who is monitoring the freq so there could be many, and NOT 7000.
Scottish FIS, for example have their own code.
Fatcontoller....Yes you are. Previously, the only conspicuity that cannot be identifed using ident WAS 7000. Now its all of them. Since the update 2 months ago. Your local orders at wherever you used to work may have said you couldnt, but thats not MATS1. And it isnt 'blindingly obvious', its actually a perfectly sound method of ident for professionals to use that has now been removed.
Yes the mistakes and errors in the new edition are a poor reflection on the CAA and as has been stated the CAA is aware of the issue and working on it.
What few of us are aware of is how few people in the CAA there are working on this stuff at the same time as trying to do a lot of much higher priority work. The software that they are forced to use to create these CAPs is not fit for purpose and causes a lot of the problems that we see published. Finally, in another case of the tail wagging the dog, the editors of the technical content have it filtered by non-technical 'content specialists' who re-word text to make it more reader friendly but then don't to admit what they have changed. Even if the editor does a word-by-word check of every page, they're never going to capture all of the errors before it's time to publish.
What few of us are aware of is how few people in the CAA there are working on this stuff at the same time as trying to do a lot of much higher priority work. The software that they are forced to use to create these CAPs is not fit for purpose and causes a lot of the problems that we see published. Finally, in another case of the tail wagging the dog, the editors of the technical content have it filtered by non-technical 'content specialists' who re-word text to make it more reader friendly but then don't to admit what they have changed. Even if the editor does a word-by-word check of every page, they're never going to capture all of the errors before it's time to publish.
So throw out the content specialists and corporate communications and replace them with half the number of people who actually know what they are doing! I am not convinced that the CAA is aware of the extent of the shambles that is the 413, and it would certainly be better to cancel edition 23 altogether.
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Last edited by 2 sheds; 30th May 2020 at 15:43. Reason: To address cheap point made by spekesoftly!
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So throw out the content specialists and corporate communications and replace them with half the number of people who actually know whey they are doing! I am not convinced that the CAA is aware of the extent of the shambles that is the 413, and it would certainly be better to cancel edition 23 altogether.
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Where is this written as can't find it. I can still see reference to Altimeter settings being individual digits. Exceptions in the para below mentions altitude but not altimeter settings. Would love it to change though so it falls in line with what I actually say !
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When I was a lad we had ASD & ATSD staff who had considerable experience in the field that they were regulating, ie former pilots, navigators, controllers, airport operations staff etc. With you all the way 2 sheds, Presumably qualifications and experience is one thing that the CAA business model cannot afford?
"Personnel Officers".
Gunky - your post and mine seem to have changed places.
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When I was a lad we had ASD & ATSD staff who had considerable experience in the field that they were regulating, ie former pilots, navigators, controllers, airport operations staff etc. With you all the way 2 sheds, Presumably qualifications and experience is one thing that the CAA business model cannot afford?
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I would welcome a more knowledgable and better-staffed regulator, better equipped to challenge ANSPs rather than perhaps relying too much on performance-based oversight.
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Even the GCAA (UAE) are less than impressed with the UK CAA.
Wake Turbulence Induced Loss of Control on Approach during Runway Lighting Calibration Flight
CAP413 probably least of their worries.
Wake Turbulence Induced Loss of Control on Approach during Runway Lighting Calibration Flight
CAP413 probably least of their worries.
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After 44 years in ATC, not in the UK, I am very glad to be out of it. I miss my colleagues and friends, one is part of a family... BUT I have seen, over the years how 'management' has taken over the whole show. Very cleverly they have adopted American management styles, rules and regulations, which under 'management speak', have become the norm. Rules are important, but in an ever changing environment, such as ATC, surely 'rules are for the guidance of wise men and the instruction of fools' is/was the way to go. Yes there will be situations when the rules are critical but then, with an enquiry, things were sorted out through rules and common sense. Nowadays, in situations such as driving a car, there is no such thing as an accident. Motorways in the UK are shut down after an incident, not accident...because it is a 'crime scene'. I suppose it boils down to insurance as there has to be a guilty party. It's money... and power, responsibility on the management side. Maybe an extreme example but that seems to be a facet of life overall.
Ready to be shot down but that's my sixpence worth. It was a great life, with a good atmosphere and wonderful people. From what I can gather, everyone now is looking over their shoulder and not really relaxed doing the job.
We who are retired had the best of days methinks.
Ready to be shot down but that's my sixpence worth. It was a great life, with a good atmosphere and wonderful people. From what I can gather, everyone now is looking over their shoulder and not really relaxed doing the job.
We who are retired had the best of days methinks.
zed3 - could not agree more. Yes, there is a need for a record of due process and responsibility (actually, not demonstrable in the subject case of Edition 23 
), but it has all gone OTT. That said, we teach HFs but frequently overlook them. In the case of a RTI, the investigation, of which the police appear to be obsessional, needs to be offset against the time and fuel and pollution and loss of productivity and sheer frustration of all those whose day and livelihood is severely disrupted. The WW2 principle of the Fleet Air Arm would be appropriate. Aircraft pranged on the flight deck, can't be easily moved, bulldozed over the side, carry on flying. So the police miss out on a possible prosecution - big deal if it is quite justifiable.
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), but it has all gone OTT. That said, we teach HFs but frequently overlook them. In the case of a RTI, the investigation, of which the police appear to be obsessional, needs to be offset against the time and fuel and pollution and loss of productivity and sheer frustration of all those whose day and livelihood is severely disrupted. The WW2 principle of the Fleet Air Arm would be appropriate. Aircraft pranged on the flight deck, can't be easily moved, bulldozed over the side, carry on flying. So the police miss out on a possible prosecution - big deal if it is quite justifiable. 2 s
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"Placement of surface wind now precedes the clearance" but then goes on to say it doesn't.
Chapter 2 "Military Aircraft Callsigns" still written in militarise with "RT" still present.
Understand that the formal complaint filed by "a stakeholder" in respect of the original attempt at Ed 23 has never been responded to, not even a "thank you for bringing this to our attention".