Wikiposts
Search
ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.

Current QNH?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 13th May 2020, 12:19
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Finland
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Current QNH?

A question to fellow controllers around the world.

What means of updating altimeter/QNH are being used in your country/at your unit? Do you have a display showing actual altimeter/QNH values for setting altimeters available in your unit? If not, what kind of routine is used for letting pilots know the actual QNH, and what is the update frequency for the values?

Thank you for any replies in advance!
FinnishATCO is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 09:49
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 75
Posts: 10,813
Received 94 Likes on 67 Posts
Originally Posted by FinnishATCO
A question to fellow controllers around the world.

What means of updating altimeter/QNH are being used in your country/at your unit? Do you have a display showing actual altimeter/QNH values for setting altimeters available in your unit? If not, what kind of routine is used for letting pilots know the actual QNH, and what is the update frequency for the values?

Thank you for any replies in advance!
You're an ATCO and you have to ask a question like that?
I think not.
chevvron is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 10:04
  #3 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 413 Likes on 218 Posts
Seems like a reasonable question to me. Sounds like the lockdown is getting to some....
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 14:10
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FinnishATCO
A question to fellow controllers around the world.

What means of updating altimeter/QNH are being used in your country/at your unit? Do you have a display showing actual altimeter/QNH values for setting altimeters available in your unit? If not, what kind of routine is used for letting pilots know the actual QNH, and what is the update frequency for the values?

Thank you for any replies in advance!
We have a live QNH/QFE readout which gives pressure to 0.1hPa.

As soon as the QNH or QFE moves up or down by 1hPa, our met page alerts and if it’s a QNH change then we pass that to aircraft via RT.
Gonzo is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 21:17
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Breeza
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here we have a live QNH feed displayed on a dedicated met screen with the feed coming from an on airport AWS
Kooim00 is offline  
Old 15th May 2020, 11:35
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
QNH/QFE with the option for an inHg-setting, for the US pilots if they require it.

Normally without any decimals, if we want to see that, it can be selected.... but the system does the rounding down just fine for us.

Should start blinking with changes, but that does not work... so we'll just keep an eye on it. Latest QNH is put on the strips when given, so rather straight forward.
jmmoric is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 09:41
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: ankara
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We have an AWOS screen, updated instantly for pressure, temp, rvr etc changes.
oneo is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 10:27
  #8 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
Posts: 4,319
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
What is the rounding algorithm? 1 hPa equals 30 feet, give or take, and that is formally relevant.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 11:02
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
What is the rounding algorithm? 1 hPa equals 30 feet, give or take, and that is formally relevant.
Rounding algorithm?? For what?

If it's the QNH/QFE, the decimal is always rounded down... so 1013.9 is given as 1013.

Oh, and the 1 hPa = appx. 30 feet.... that is only at ground level, due to the way an altimeter is set up, at 30.000 feet 1 hPa is roughly 70 feet. Which is the reason vertical separation is 2000 feet above FL290 (but is reduced in RVSM airspace with requirements on the altimeters of the aircraft flying there)
jmmoric is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 13:36
  #10 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
Posts: 4,319
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
QNH/QFE, the decimal is always rounded down... so 1013.9 is given as 1013.
Thanks for confirming. Sorry for the simplification, it's understood that 1 hPa is around 27 feet on ISA SL but increasing going up, and thus around 30' below TA/L where pilots need it.

Going deeper, if the value as displayed in single digits decimals fluctuates between x.9 and x+1.0 what is the filtering logic? So you do not have to issue a new report for every instant change. Genuine geeky question.

FlightDetent is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 15:41
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
Thanks for confirming. Sorry for the simplification, it's understood that 1 hPa is around 27 feet on ISA SL but increasing going up, and thus around 30' below TA/L where pilots need it.
Technically, I cannot come up with any situation where you need to convert hPa into altitude.... the 27 feet is something you learn at the academy, and in most cases never use it again (as a pilot). As a controller there are more situations where it may be relevant, but since most transition levels are now (or should be) at least 1000 feet from the transition altitude, and those calculations are done automatically, that one is not often required anymore at most ATC units.

But yes, if it keeps flipping between 1013 and 1014 (because it's flipping the decimal 3,9 and 4,0), you'd have to pass it. But those situations are relatively rare.... at least where I work.
jmmoric is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 16:00
  #12 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
Posts: 4,319
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Things getting lost in translation, thanks for the insights provided.

As a regular (weekly basis) visitor to QFE run ATS theatres with a QNH built machine it becomes second nature and a good tool to have in the box. Not to mention some back-office calculations or the annual assessments of technical competence.




Last edited by FlightDetent; 18th May 2020 at 16:10.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 21:04
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: sussex
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
I guess chevvron is feeling the pressure?
42go is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 12:26
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LookingForAJob
Back in my day, some 25 years ago....
It's a shame you cannot give "upvotes" here, really appreciate the reply.

I just went through the observers course... they've found out we could handle the observing from the tower, and moved the meteorologist.... (actually they fired the observer many years ago, because the meteorologist could do that)... and since the system is automated, and certified to operate without anyone doing anything anymore.... We're only supposed to poke it if anything is really wrong...
jmmoric is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 21:27
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Luton
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I understand that the QNH for an airfield can be read directly from an instrument at the airfield.

When a Regional QNH (UK) is given how is that determined and obtained by approach controllers?

PPL
Jim59 is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 05:24
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jmmoric
Rounding algorithm?? For what?

If it's the QNH/QFE, the decimal is always rounded down... so 1013.9 is given as 1013.

Oh, and the 1 hPa = appx. 30 feet.... that is only at ground level, due to the way an altimeter is set up, at 30.000 feet 1 hPa is roughly 70 feet. Which is the reason vertical separation is 2000 feet above FL290 (but is reduced in RVSM airspace with requirements on the altimeters of the aircraft flying there)
Doesn't that depend where your ground is?
Islandlad is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 22:40
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jim59
When a Regional QNH (UK) is given how is that determined and obtained by approach controllers?
Hopefully, never, since approaches are not based on what is a rough and ready forecast (UK IAIP defines a Regional Pressure Setting as for use only when an appropriate airfield QNH is not available).

In practice the Met Office disseminate Regional Pressure Settings as their forecast for the current hour and the next hour - originally via Afpex, most of us see them nowadays on the Met Office Aviation Met site.
LastStandards is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 20:53
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Itinerant
Posts: 828
Received 77 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by 42go
I guess chevvron is feeling the pressure?
His reaction is a barometer of these difficult times...
grizzled is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 21:52
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,810
Received 199 Likes on 92 Posts
I've always though he was a bit of a mercurial character.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 23:33
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Itinerant
Posts: 828
Received 77 Likes on 13 Posts
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
I've always though he was a bit of a mercurial character.



grizzled is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.