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Annoying habits

Old 24th Sep 2019, 15:36
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Red face Annoying habits

What are the most annoying things for you air traffic controllers that we pilots do thats annoying , unnecessary or just plain stupid?

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Old 24th Sep 2019, 16:17
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Identing without us requesting it.
Serves no useful purpose as we have to observe your response to our request for ident.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 16:17
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Originally Posted by PilotViking View Post
What are the most annoying things for you air traffic controllers that we pilots do thats annoying , unnecessary or just plain stupid?
<Rant>
  1. Ignoring speed instructions (happens way more frequently then it should).
  2. Lying about ignoring speed instructions. We have Mode S so can see what you're doing. If you can't make a descent restriction work with an assigned speed just tell me and I'll change the plan.
  3. Announcing on the RT that you're logged on to CPDLC. Doing so literally defeats the point of the system.
  4. Telling me that you've started descent.
</Rant>

Juggler25 is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2019, 16:44
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Rushing to check in on freq. I sometimes can’t even correct a wrong read back before someone else is jumping in. Your first call is usually not that urgent (but if it is we will call you.)

First call to Director: long transmissions giving speed, QNH, next point or name of STAR, etc. Regardless of what you’re supposed to say the only things we need are aircraft type and cleared level.
We can see your speed on radar and strips, a fresh QNH will be given on first descent to an altitude.
Each extra item on first call increases the length of the transmission exponentially and there’s nothing worse than watching an aircraft fly through the localiser or turn outbound in the hold because the frequency is blocked with someone saying “and the err..um...QNH is....um....I’ve got it here...somewhere....”

Asking for climb/descent/WX avoidance when it’s self evident from TCAS or �� there’s another aircraft RIGHT THERE.


Thanks for asking PilotViking!

Del Prado is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2019, 17:17
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“Control, ABC123, request” (Makes me reach for pen and paper preparing for what must surely be an extremely out of the ordinary request!)
”ABC123, control, go ahead (pen in hand)”
“ABC123 request 1000’ up or down” (thinking why didn’t they just say that in the first transmission).

”ABC123, standby” (I might have to check with the next sector or unit if you’re requesting something or I’m on the phone and intend to call you back)
”Standing by, ABC123” (seriously!?!)

Also; “standing by for descent/lower”, “request FXXX if available”

SThor is online now  
Old 24th Sep 2019, 17:26
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Reminds me of a late colleague at Heathrow. Told by GMC to listen on 118.5 (Tower) a pilot came on the tower freq with: "XXX listening on 118.5". My colleague said "So am I, but I'm being quiet about it!"
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 17:46
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From my experience, here's a few to be going on with:

Protracted initial calls, e.g. passing full flight details (and / or irrelevant info) on first transmission on a Freecall.
Failing to standby when asked.
Uncommanded IDENT.
Non-compliance with speed control. Not telling the truth when asked to confirm flying assigned speed.
Transmitting when asked to monitor, e.g. "Monitor (agency) on (channel)"..."Hi (Agency), this is (callsign) monitoring / listening out / standing by on your frequency"
Transmitting more than required when asked to check-in 'callsign only'..."Hi Director (callsign) with you, out of blah blah, descending blah blah, QNH blah blah, coming back to blah blah, field in sight, requesting visual, any chance of the Left.." etc
Not making any reasonable attempt to minimise use of runway, e.g. rolling to the end at taxy speed.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 19:50
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Early 1980s, Gatwick Tower to a BCAL DC10 pilot - "Vacate Right before Surrey".
Pilot's reply - "I've paid for the full length, so I'm using it"
spekesoftly is online now  
Old 24th Sep 2019, 22:42
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"I know we've only filed FL230 today but if you can let the French know we're after FL410........"

Converting from a Mach to IAS below FL270, having been told "convert to 250kts" and still accelerating to 325kts and then saying "we're still on a Mach". Thanks.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 23:20
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out of curiosity, how much extra work does it cause when we ask for shortcuts that takes us outside controlled airspace? i.e deconfliction service etc

Thanks for the replies!
PilotViking is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 05:30
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Originally Posted by PilotViking View Post
out of curiosity, how much extra work does it cause when we ask for shortcuts that takes us outside controlled airspace? i.e deconfliction service etc

Thanks for the replies!
'Leaving controlled airspace; terminating radar service; freecall Farnborough Radar on xxx.xxx'.
chevvron is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:13
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Originally Posted by Juggler25 View Post
<Rant>
  1. Ignoring speed instructions (happens way more frequently then it should).
  2. Lying about ignoring speed instructions. We have Mode S so can see what you're doing. If you can't make a descent restriction work with an assigned speed just tell me and I'll change the plan.
  3. Announcing on the RT that you're logged on to CPDLC. Doing so literally defeats the point of the system.
  4. Telling me that you've started descent.
</Rant>

all of above plus chit-chating on 121.5
kontrolor is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:18
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Landing and slowing down to taxispeed, and still expecting to vacate at the exit at the runway end when the frequency is busy, yes, I will throw you off at the first exit if needed, even if it's the wrong side and you'll have to cross again later

And the initial call before making a request.... as SThor mentioned.

Not understanding the difference between a visual approach and VFR (that's not really annoying, just mildly surprising).

Over the years you'll get used to pilots being "morning lazy" and not paying attention, so when traffic picks up you'll end up with the 4 or 5 instructions you'll have to repeat until everyone seems to wake up... That's not really annoying, just part of the job, and I don't mind it
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 10:31
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Having been given line-up clearance and once established on the runway stating your intention to take 3minutes or more behind the departing heavy. You can of course take as long as you like - but let the ATCO know before lining up and they will find someone, if they can, to go ahead of you. Certainly was the case at LL/LHR.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 10:46
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When an a/c wanted to transit the zone and asked if he was VFR, I lost count of the number of times they replied with Roger! More than once I was tempted to say is that roger yes or roger no!
Level bust is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 10:06
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Originally Posted by Juggler25 View Post
<Rant>
  1. Ignoring speed instructions (happens way more frequently then it should).
  2. Lying about ignoring speed instructions. We have Mode S so can see what you're doing. If you can't make a descent restriction work with an assigned speed just tell me and I'll change the plan.
  3. Announcing on the RT that you're logged on to CPDLC. Doing so literally defeats the point of the system.
  4. Telling me that you've started descent.
</Rant>

4. is a requirement in Australia (why? I don't know), so not surprising that some pilots do it elsewhere.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 15:22
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Switching to a new frequency and then starting to talk a millisecond later. Listen out first please!


​​
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:46
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Originally Posted by PilotViking View Post
out of curiosity, how much extra work does it cause when we ask for shortcuts that takes us outside controlled airspace? i.e deconfliction service etc

Thanks for the replies!
It can cause a lot, coordination with other sectors/airfields to accept the route and provide the service. Plus these requests are usually made with an ďif it helpsĒ can we take a dc and go direct. It rarely helps, it is taking you from a known traffic environment into an unknown one. The workload on us increases and I suspect that a lot of the commercial pilots who ask for these services donít have a clue what their responsibilities are outside CAS or how they drop way down the controllerís priorities when they choose to do this. Pilotís even accepting to route through intense gliding areas in their big passenger jets to save a couple of minutes. Itís all fun and games until the collision.

Other daily ball aches?

1-Uncommanded ident.
2-Not only ignoring speed control instructions but flat out lying when challenged and getting pissy about it too. At least daily this occurs.
3-Reading back by voice an instruction sent by CPDLC 🤷🏻*♂️
4-Repeated requests for something when a good reason has been given for refusal, eg direct when it would take you through an active danger area. I donít refuse direct routes for no reason.
5-Being given a when ready clearance to be level by a point and then missing it, sometimes by many thousands of feet. Causes coordination and sometimes separation issues.
6-The never ending turbulence chat from the Americans on a bumpy day. It was forecast, Iíve told you thereís no smooth levels, stop cluttering up my frequency with your light chop banter.
7-ďWhatís the traffic ahead of us?Ē It doesnít matter, Iíve slowed you down because it is busy. Iím well aware your Airbus can do 340kts, it can also do 250, quit moaning.
8-Asking the reason for the delay when the frequency is congested with arrivals and Iím sending everything to the hold. Itís not because I like making pretty patterns on the radar.

aaaand relax.

That was quite therapeutic.

Generally though, pilots are a pretty sound and professional bunch and the overwhelming majority are excellent in their interactions with atc. A handful of roasters wind us up, but thatís probably a two way street.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 17:35
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Originally Posted by AerocatS2A View Post
4. is a requirement in Australia (why? I don't know), so not surprising that some pilots do it elsewhere.
Yeah in this part of the world it tends to be the Swiss and Italians that do it the most so am guessing it's a requirement there as well.

"I know we've only filed FL230 today but if you can let the French know we're after FL410........"
"Yes of course I'll let the French know" - Turns to colleague and carrys on conversation about last nights Game of Thrones....

Generally though, pilots are a pretty sound and professional bunch and the overwhelming majority are excellent in their interactions with atc. A handful of roasters wind us up, but thatís probably a two way street.
Spot on.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 21:56
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Not listening at all, especially when really busy and the aircraft is number 1 at the hold, or at a 2 mile final and they are called with no answer. Today 1 aircraft was called 3 times before answering when inside 2 miles from touchdown. Surely you must be expecting a call!!
Not listening on the GMC frequency so increasing the workload. I know you have lots to do for your quick turn around, but if you listen you might get there quicker.
Stop sniffing at a runway high speed exit and then slowly taxying to the next exit. Not only anoyying and delaying everything but also might mean another aircraft has to go around due to you wandering down the runway. Get off the runway asap!!
Stopping on the runway and then turning really slowly down the high speed exit. Just be glad we don't have live microphones!
Calling on GMC that you are approaching where you have been told to hold. I know you are, but there is something either in your way, or about to be, so stop wasting RT time.
Asking to roll to the end as it's easier for you when you can see about 10 aircraft at the holding point witing to depert. As one pilot said on the RT recently when this very request was made by a company aircraft "numpty".

Most pilots are fine and get there and help us out, but the ones who don't......
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