ATCO licencing back in the, relative, day
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ATCO licencing back in the, relative, day
Hi, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the process of obtaining an ATCO licence back in the 80’s/90’s for someone not attached to a company.
Would I be right in thinking it was similar to how the FISO licencing currently works? i.e. one self studies nav, met, aviation law & procedures and goes off to aviation house to sit the written examinations to obtain a student licence. Once that’s obtained, you go to a unit for a period of on the job training. At the end of which and after a successful board, you obtained your full licence and rating in which ever discipline you had received the training in?
If anyone could shed some light, that would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Nick
Would I be right in thinking it was similar to how the FISO licencing currently works? i.e. one self studies nav, met, aviation law & procedures and goes off to aviation house to sit the written examinations to obtain a student licence. Once that’s obtained, you go to a unit for a period of on the job training. At the end of which and after a successful board, you obtained your full licence and rating in which ever discipline you had received the training in?
If anyone could shed some light, that would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Nick
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Back in the 80’s (maybe 90’s as well) you could roll up at your nearest ATCU with a tin of biscuits or packet of fags for your favourite ATCO and “plug-in”. He or she didn’t need to be an OJTI either. We found some talented staff that way and trained them up (a guy used to run courses from the boot of his Volvo) and they became very successful long standing members of the ATC team. These days it’s different and despite being ATSAs for a few years and doing the ATC aptitude assessments, we’ve had less success whereby members of staff have achieved the student ATCO licence but have been unable to validate. At great expense and time on the part of the company.
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As far as I can recall, there were 2 main ways of getting a full licence. Either a NATS cadetship or self study usually supported by a non NATS unit. Either way you would apply for a student licence and study for the rating (tower/approach/radar/area etc) . This could be a rating course with classroom and simulator training or self study, usually backed up with OJT and purchasing simulator time to prepare for the practical. You then take written papers, oral board and simulator test to get the rating. The rating then has to be validated for the unit following OJT and examination.
There was another way. A few 'non state units', as they were known, would employ ATCAs/ATSAs as trainee ATCOs. They would pay for them to do the courses, either at Bournemouth or with IAL. Luton was one, certainly on the courses I did there was one from Leeds and a couple from Jersey.
Hi, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on the process of obtaining an ATCO licence back in the 80’s/90’s for someone not attached to a company.
Would I be right in thinking it was similar to how the FISO licencing currently works? i.e. one self studies nav, met, aviation law & procedures and goes off to aviation house to sit the written examinations to obtain a student licence. Once that’s obtained, you go to a unit for a period of on the job training. At the end of which and after a successful board, you obtained your full licence and rating in which ever discipline you had received the training in?
If anyone could shed some light, that would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Nick
Would I be right in thinking it was similar to how the FISO licencing currently works? i.e. one self studies nav, met, aviation law & procedures and goes off to aviation house to sit the written examinations to obtain a student licence. Once that’s obtained, you go to a unit for a period of on the job training. At the end of which and after a successful board, you obtained your full licence and rating in which ever discipline you had received the training in?
If anyone could shed some light, that would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Nick
Since RGAT, you MUST complete an approved course at a school or college which has been approved by the CAA.
There were also 'unlicensed' ATCOs before the FISO regulations were implimented in the '80s; old Reg who used to do Blackbushe Tower in the '70s was unlicensed but used ATCO phraseology in the days before the CAA and nobody seemed to object; likewise I believe civil ATCOs at Biggin were the same in that era (but I could be wrong about that).
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Many thanks for your replies. Surprising to hear that if one had worked at the unit as an assistant for some time and achieved a student licence, that they still struggled to validate. I could understand it more if they were completely new to the unit, especially a busy one.
Chevvron, yes I believe Biggin did have unlicensed ATCO’s as well as Hamble. I wonder what the route was to that? I presume in those days there was no air ground communication service? So I guess, before FISO’s came in, the only options were licenced/unlicened ATCO’s or nothing, did we even have safetycom then?
Thanks,
Nick
Chevvron, yes I believe Biggin did have unlicensed ATCO’s as well as Hamble. I wonder what the route was to that? I presume in those days there was no air ground communication service? So I guess, before FISO’s came in, the only options were licenced/unlicened ATCO’s or nothing, did we even have safetycom then?
Thanks,
Nick
In the mid 80s ,I believe some of the instructors from the college of ATC,either in their spare time,or perhaps following retirement used to do some training leading to TWR/APP licence & ratings.Maybe this was the 'back of a Volvo' scheme alluded to in post#2.At least one of the RAF controllers I knew at Eastern Radar obtained his CAA licence this way. Think he went on to work at Warton.
Many thanks for your replies. Surprising to hear that if one had worked at the unit as an assistant for some time and achieved a student licence, that they still struggled to validate. I could understand it more if they were completely new to the unit, especially a busy one.
Chevvron, yes I believe Biggin did have unlicensed ATCO’s as well as Hamble. I wonder what the route was to that? I presume in those days there was no air ground communication service? So I guess, before FISO’s came in, the only options were licenced/unlicened ATCO’s or nothing, did we even have safetycom then?
Thanks,
Nick
Chevvron, yes I believe Biggin did have unlicensed ATCO’s as well as Hamble. I wonder what the route was to that? I presume in those days there was no air ground communication service? So I guess, before FISO’s came in, the only options were licenced/unlicened ATCO’s or nothing, did we even have safetycom then?
Thanks,
Nick
They did come up with an innovation pre-ATIS days, to have non ATCOs provide departure information rather than clog up the TWR frequency. With at its peak doing 100,000 movments per year the TWR frequency was quite a busy place.
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That is not a statistic I would be proud of if I was involved in training. There is no way you could be unlucky in a unit to get that amount of unsatisfactory students through the door, that sounds more like poor training techniques and controllers instructing that didn't know what they were doing. Wonder what the modern day pass rate is both at Heathrow and across other units?
Chevvron, yes I believe Biggin did have unlicensed ATCO’s as well as Hamble. I wonder what the route was to that? I presume in those days there was no air ground communication service? So I guess, before FISO’s came in, the only options were licenced/unlicened ATCO’s or nothing, did we even have safetycom then?
Thanks,
Nick
Thanks,
Nick
In the '70s, NATCS (predecessor of NATS) had its own FISO training system for its H & I airfields; the tels officer was supposed to be trained to carry out RTF should the ATCO Manager not be available. I'm not sure if any sort of licence or certificate of competence was issued for this; presumably it all changed when FISO Licencing was introduced and unlicenced ATCOs banned but I'm not sure when this was, sometime about 1980 I think.
Last edited by chevvron; 17th Aug 2019 at 18:22.
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I'm sure the older Heathrow ATCOs will remember the radar simulator that was in the old tower. I think it went or was replaced sometime in the 90s? Did anyone here do their 'non-state' APP & APP Radar there on the old Hurn Synthetic or Seaton zones?
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Possibly one of the reasons for the high failure rate at EGLL in the past was that you had to validate both in the Tower and Approach. Single validations were not countenanced.
Could be wrong,but I seem to remember going there once from LATCC,where they had it configured for area radar training,long before they had the simulator at WD.This would have been around 80/81.
I believe the Heathrow sim is now at Heathrow House on the Bath Road but it's almost certainly tower only.