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MEIR Flight Plans and Entry to Controlled Airspace

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MEIR Flight Plans and Entry to Controlled Airspace

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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 10:43
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MEIR Flight Plans and Entry to Controlled Airspace

Been hearing a few stories lately of IR training flight plans in the system but London/Scottish control simply advising to contact LARS and binning off out of controlled airspace asap and/or not necessarily accepting entry to controlled airspace on return legs - again to negotiate a route with LARS units. It can ruin the intended training (obviously creating new real world challenges). Seems a bit unsporting and I'd far prefer to be safer in controlled airspace as per my flight plan - is there no obligation from NATS to provide a service once a flight plan has been accepted? I can't imagine airspace <FL100 is that busy down low for your typical MEP so not sure what the reasons are. Any advice or general experience appreciated.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 11:59
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If you're trying to cross through a TMA at FL100 or below, I can understand it; the airspace in TMAs is very busy with traffic climbing and descending especially where CDAs are in operation; try filing FL120 or higher.
ATC cannot refuse a clearance for other than traffic reasons and I would guess this is what is happening.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 12:24
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What kind of flight plan are you filing?

I've been on an approach/Lars unit when aircraft have called me to arrange their joining clearance having filed an IFR flight plan that has been accepted by IFPS. On looking at the route, it consisted of just DCT to a variety of waypoints in CAS, rather than following an airways route. Invariably crossing busy airways and routes at FL100.

Fortunately on one occasion I called the sector controller and they were quiet enough to accept the aircraft on the requested routing.

I'm not suggesting you are doing this, but it's understandable that an area sector won't accept an aircraft that isn't flying a prescribed routing and conflicting with everybody else who is.
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Old 2nd Dec 2018, 14:17
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Even on a recognised route there is often a restriction on the lowest cruising level available; you'll need to check this in the AIP.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 16:40
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Suggest you post some sample routes so we can advise appropriately.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 17:40
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If this thread is confined to UK airspace then I recommend you follow the attached to improve your 'hit rate'

NATS | AIS - Home

^ SRD Document for IFR flights.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 21:05
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Originally Posted by Doody2007 View Post
What kind of flight plan are you filing?

I've been on an approach/Lars unit when aircraft have called me to arrange their joining clearance having filed an IFR flight plan that has been accepted by IFPS. On looking at the route, it consisted of just DCT to a variety of waypoints in CAS, rather than following an airways route. Invariably crossing busy airways and routes at FL100.

Fortunately on one occasion I called the sector controller and they were quiet enough to accept the aircraft on the requested routing.

I'm not suggesting you are doing this, but it's understandable that an area sector won't accept an aircraft that isn't flying a prescribed routing and conflicting with everybody else who is.
If filing DCT to DCT is not really feasible then it raises the question of how the FPL gets accepted when it is filed?
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 21:30
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Because IFPS doesn’t check the route against the UK SRD.

This shouldn’t be news to anyone submitting IFR inside CAS flight plans for UK/Ireland FAB airspace.

Build your route according to the SRD, and you’ll be fine.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 17:00
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I don't like to disagree, Gonzo, but I am sure that IFPS does check against the SRD.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 17:40
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Don’t worry about disagreeing with me! One of many!

I know they check against the RAD, but didn’t realise there was a check against the UK/Ireland SRD.

From IFPS user manual...

The United Kingdom and Ireland's Standard Route Document (SRD) is produced by NATS to assist AOs in constructing RAD-compliant route portions within UK and Irish airspace. The SRD is not a mandatory document, and the routes contained within should be considered as preferred routeings only. The routes are promulgated to identify optimum routeings for operators with due regard to ATFCM requirements. The IFPS is not obliged to comply with the SRD, and when processing messages, the IFPS staff shall only validate messages in accordance with current and relevant Route Availability Document (RAD) restrictions and route availability requirements.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 20:57
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Originally Posted by GWYN View Post
I don't like to disagree, Gonzo, but I am sure that IFPS does check against the SRD.
Don't think they do; there are published SDRs for departures from the Farnborough area and when someone doesn't file using one of them, IFPS doesn't change it but fortunately the LTCC/LACC computer does.
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