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right orbit on short final

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right orbit on short final

Old 22nd Nov 2018, 10:05
  #21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
If you would like the perspective of a low time student pilot.... I must say I would find that instruction difficult. I am not aware of a formal definition of 'short final', but if it is much less than say 2.5 miles when I would be particularly low and slow, I don't think it could be safely executed in many places without powering-up gaining significant height. I presume the implication of such an instruction is not to climb?? There are several of examples of people dying as a result of pressured manoevers like that in the pattern. A mile further out, and it would be no issue at all, but in those last few minutes when I am shedding speed and height, fiddling with flaps and radio, I would not be happy with such a request, in fact I hope I would reply 'unable', and request plan C.

Why would ATC not ask for a go-around?
Very good point, I was actually less than a mile out and about 500 feet (can't be bothered to use 1 in 60 rule ;-) - I just hit the power and slowly levelled off the nose as I watched my airspeed increase, then executed the manoeuvre. I hate to think how close up my arse the twin was but the next instruction issued to him was "Surface wind XXX/XX, clear land runway 03".
I didn't know any different then, I just thought it was normal so i did it! It did occur to me that I hadn't encountered this during my training and certainly didn't do it on my GFT!
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Old 22nd Nov 2018, 11:24
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Having been in a similar situation, both as an ATCO in the tower and a low hours PPL, , the correct instruction should have been "go around", pilot replies and complies, landing clearance to the following traffic PLUS traffic information as to what is happening ahead as it was obviously tight.

Seems pretty obvious the ATCO had misjudged the situation and had a bit of a moment, as acknowledged later.

The pilot, whilst having to comply with the go around instruction can always make a request as to how best get back to finals, otherwise they are quite entitled to fly the standard circuit.

As for the student scenario, any instructor that let's a student into the circuit without having practiced late go arounds should be shot.

I had the pleasure of practicing that in a very old Cessna 150 from a 40 degrees flap approach, heart rate of the first one went sky high, everyone should try it for a laugh.
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Old 22nd Nov 2018, 15:07
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Fat Controller View Post
As for the student scenario, any instructor that let's a student into the circuit without having practiced late go arounds should be shot..
So far in my training I have done more late go-arounds than landings!
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Old 22nd Nov 2018, 17:36
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Taught not to do this, and you send the one behind around around (already higher and has the traffic ahead in sight) right?
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Old 22nd Nov 2018, 19:22
  #25 (permalink)  

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Seems to me that an aircraft cleared to finals shouldn't be orbited there for reasons already stated. There's a number of ways that an inexperienced pilot could easily stuff that one up.

I had the pleasure of practicing that in a very old Cessna 150 from a 40 degrees flap approach, heart rate of the first one went sky high, everyone should try it for a laugh.
Yes, I learned to fly on the C150 - with 40 flap selected, full power increases the noise level but not the flight level!
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 03:16
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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phdresearcher: I’m confused. On your first post you quote the landing clx was for runway 21; then in your most recent post (#21) you write the landing clx was for runway 03. Was the traffic behind you or landing on the other end?
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