Primary radar systems at British airports.
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Primary radar systems at British airports.
It's been a few years since this was discussed.
At Leeds Bradford the 1989-vintage Plessey Watchman is still turning and doing the business. I believe its had a few upgrades and tweaks over the years, some very recent. As far as I know, none of the NATS airfields are still using the Watchman but I think Newcastle and East Midlands still have their Marconi S511s. Built to last ?
At Leeds Bradford the 1989-vintage Plessey Watchman is still turning and doing the business. I believe its had a few upgrades and tweaks over the years, some very recent. As far as I know, none of the NATS airfields are still using the Watchman but I think Newcastle and East Midlands still have their Marconi S511s. Built to last ?
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Thankyou Glamdring. I thought the Edinburgh Watchman might have gone during the NATS era but obviously not. I haven't heard of the Terma SCANTER model before. Must investigate. I know Thales and Raytheon primary radars are a popular choice for new installations these days.
Thankyou Glamdring. I thought the Edinburgh Watchman might have gone during the NATS era but obviously not. I haven't heard of the Terma SCANTER model before. Must investigate. I know Thales and Raytheon primary radars are a popular choice for new installations these days.
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Newcastle has a Thales STAR 2000 PSR and a Terma SCANTER 4002 as a windfarm infill radar. I think that East Midlands still has the S511 - a replacement/update was mooted some time ago but I don't know if a decision has been made. They also use an Aveillant Theia 16A for windfarm mitigation.
Last edited by Simtech; 21st Jan 2018 at 15:53.
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I don't mean popular as in well-loved but rather the one everyone goes for, for some indeterminate reason. What's the problem with the ASR10, compared to the Watchman and the S511 ?
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Newcastle has a Thales STAR 2000 PSR and a Terma SCANTER 4002 as a windfarm infill radar. I think that East Midlands still has the S511 - a replacement/update was mooted some time ago but I don't know if a decision has been made. They also use an Aveillant Theia 16A for windfarm mitigation.
I've seen a few pictures of the Terma Scanter now but the Aveillant is another new one on me.
Leeds Bradford is surrounded by windfarms but there's no obvious extra piece of equipment for windfarm mitigation. The Watchman was 4G-proofed some years ago and a new data processor came along in 2016. I don't know if the latter has dealt with the windfarm issue though.
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The only other remaining S511s are at Prestwick (which is another hybrid
- basically S511 electronics with a Watchman antenna) and the MoD range at Manorbier in Wales.
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So Newcastle and Inverness have the Thales. Anyone else ? The Raytheon ASR10 seems to be the other new generation machine.
Interesting to read about these hybrid Watchman and Marconi mash-ups. I know this used to go on some years ago, e.g. the Cossor ACR6 becoming an EN4000 or something like that. Probably companies like Selex and MARIS get involved. How does an operator gain approval to commission a hybrid radar ?
Did Ronaldsway ever get their Watchman replacement off the ground ?
Interesting to read about these hybrid Watchman and Marconi mash-ups. I know this used to go on some years ago, e.g. the Cossor ACR6 becoming an EN4000 or something like that. Probably companies like Selex and MARIS get involved. How does an operator gain approval to commission a hybrid radar ?
Did Ronaldsway ever get their Watchman replacement off the ground ?
Whereas the Watchman has Adaptive MTI and thus 'cancels' just non-moving objects and slow moving weather returns, the ASR 10 we had at Farnborough relied not only on cancelling non-moving objects but also on designating areas of the radar where the threshold speed was adjusted to cancel out unwanted moving objects too. A prime example is the Hogs Back upon which the A31 road runs. With Watchman and its predecessors you could see road traffic on it and you got used to it; they were only tiny 'blips' anyway, but the ASR10 displays a much larger processed symbol and has this whole area cancelled by a threshold speed of supposedly 50kts rather than the 30kts around the rest of the picture; all I know is anyone flying a slow moving aircraft or doing training or aeros in this area doesn't show at all on primary radar. A similar effect occurs in several other places, plus of course the setting up PEs have to be in an area where the threshold speed is set to zero.
Unless you had worked with the AR1 and Watchman at Farnborough, you wouldn't realise there are holes, but they are definitely there.
Never seen an S511 picture so I don't know what it would be like.
Last edited by chevvron; 22nd Jan 2018 at 12:53.
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I understand that all the Watchman radars at MOD sites will be replaced by Thales equipment (possibly the STAR 2000NG) as part of Project Marshall, the modernisation/update programme for military ATC.
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Thales STAR-2000s at Newcastle, Inverness, Manston [since withdrawn], Belfast International, Cardiff, Oxford, Guernsey, Birmingham, plus 20 at RAF and other military units, first one now in place, others being installed up to 2021.
Isle of Man has a Leonardo (formerly Selex) ATCR-33S. Commissioned Sept 2017. Other ATCR-33s at Southend, Bristol, Belfast City, Bournemouth and Newquay. Plus an ATCR-44 at Warton.
Isle of Man has a Leonardo (formerly Selex) ATCR-33S. Commissioned Sept 2017. Other ATCR-33s at Southend, Bristol, Belfast City, Bournemouth and Newquay. Plus an ATCR-44 at Warton.
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Re chevvron's "holes", quite apart from the different MTI threshold speeds, this is an inevitable consequence of replacing raw video display radars like the Watchman with plot-extracted radars. The former will display anything deemed to be a valid plot on first scan; the plot-extracted radars have to see a plot on at least three consecutive scans before they'll display it. For things like gliders that may appear fleetingly on only one scan, this inevitably means the newer radars will be giving a lot less information on this type of target to controllers. For those providing ATSOCAS that can be a significant concern.
It will be particularly interesting to see how the RAF deals with this issue with their shiny new STAR-2000s.
It will be particularly interesting to see how the RAF deals with this issue with their shiny new STAR-2000s.
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Leeds Bradford is surrounded by windfarms but there's no obvious extra piece of equipment for windfarm mitigation. The Watchman was 4G-proofed some years ago and a new data processor came along in 2016. I don't know if the latter has dealt with the windfarm issue though.
PDR