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clearance received or not?

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clearance received or not?

Old 27th Apr 2016, 09:53
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clearance received or not?

Good morning everybody,
as a pilot I'd like to address you a doubt related to a situation I found myself in during my last sim check.

This is the situation:

during an IFR flight, ATC instruct me to proceed direct to the VOR for an ILS approach to runway 21. I'm west of the VOR and I start tracking the 270 radial inbound, so my heading is 090. A few miles before the station, ATC instruct me to turn right to a final heading of 130 "vector for spacing with other traffic". This final heading is now taking me away from the VOR. When the VOR is already behind me, let say I'm on radial 150 and still flying heading 130, I realize I'm totally lost comm.

The airport I'm flying to has special lost comms procedure depending if the aircraft involved has received a clearance or not.

In your opinion, considering I received a first clearance to proceed to the VOR for an ILS approach but then I was put under radar vector, which procedure shall I apply? "clearance received" or "clearance not received"?

Thank you very much in advance to you all
prinztegame is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2016, 12:20
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Sorry it's not an exact answer but.... it doesn't really matter. As the controller, as soon as I realise lost comms, I'm going to get everything else I can out of your way and expect you to do ANYTHING. We all know there are procedures laid down, both local and international, but I would have to say any controller should be thinking that a lost comms pilot may either follow a procedure which he may or my not have read, may or may not have interpreted in the same manner as me, or may be ignoring in favour of a different procedure, and that's before we consider there may be other problems, not just comms
. I would add that if possible, doing things slowly and having a bit of a hold to think about it or try other comms channels may be a nice idea to allow moving of other traffic, warning other units etc.,
(Ducks, and prepares to be battered by the great "But the book says" brigade)
Not Long Now is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2016, 12:43
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Not long now.... I agree.
Old 27th Apr 2016, 13:38
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Thanks Not Long Now and Heathrow Director,

I know that the common sense should always be applied and that in case of real lost comms any ATC will get everyone out of the way to make things easier for any aircraft with difficulties.

To state my question in a different manner: Am I right to think and say that if ATC is suddenly vectoring me for any possible reason any previous clearance is not longer valid?
prinztegame is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2016, 23:06
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I would guess you'd squawk 'radio fail' and carry out the VOR to ILS procedure, broadcasting your intentions 'blind' on the last assigned frequency (and 121.5 if you have time) just in case you've only had receiver failure.
(But then I'm retired so I dare say some whizzkid will come along with a different answer!)
chevvron is online now  
Old 1st May 2016, 17:40
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As with Chevvron, been retired a bit, but you have "received a clearance" .
You were told to "proceed direct to the VOR for an ILS." There's your clearance.

The fact you are being vectored is a bit of a red herring. You're being vectored "for spacing" (as opposed to separation) from other traffic confirms you are making an approach.

However as with HD and Not Long Now, ATC normally expect anything when you lose comms!

Squawk R/T fail and good luck with some of the most complicated procedures there are, when you may also have further problems!
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Old 2nd May 2016, 22:28
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You're being vectored "for spacing" (as opposed to separation)
windowjob, you will find that in many cases a vector "for spacing" is the politically correct way to actually provide a separation
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