Dear Michael O'Leary
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Dear Michael O'Leary
From one of the " loony" controllers,
Thank-you so much for showing such completely unprofessional disregard for the measured views of one of us in a respected forum that exists to highlight issues that make aviation a better place.
Michael, you should be aware of the exceptionally fine service your planes receive in the London TMA, shortcuts where possible into Luton and Stansted, easing of the speed restriction points where possible, direct routeings where possible etc.. Wonder how many Guinness vouchers that saves you over the year ?
Personally I think that your pilots are extremely helpful to us when asked to do things out of the ordinary but I now wonder whether they share your view that we are one strip short of a full bay ?
Mind you I am wasting my time with this thread, you will never see it as you rank PPRUNE below even the idle tittle tattle of that tabloid rag CHIRP.
wibble wibble
foo fighting
Thank-you so much for showing such completely unprofessional disregard for the measured views of one of us in a respected forum that exists to highlight issues that make aviation a better place.
Michael, you should be aware of the exceptionally fine service your planes receive in the London TMA, shortcuts where possible into Luton and Stansted, easing of the speed restriction points where possible, direct routeings where possible etc.. Wonder how many Guinness vouchers that saves you over the year ?
Personally I think that your pilots are extremely helpful to us when asked to do things out of the ordinary but I now wonder whether they share your view that we are one strip short of a full bay ?
Mind you I am wasting my time with this thread, you will never see it as you rank PPRUNE below even the idle tittle tattle of that tabloid rag CHIRP.
wibble wibble
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A few quotes from yesterday's "Times":-
Micheal O'Leary, Ryanair's Chief Executive, described the report as nonsense and said that the respected whistle-blowing body which published it was "an internet chat room".
...
[MOL] ... described the controller who filed the report as a "loony".
...
[MOL] described CHIRP as "the equivalent of the PPrune chatroom", referring to the Professional Pilots Rumour Network website on which pilots are encouraged to exchange gossip about the industry under the protection of anonymity.
...
David Learmount, safety editor of Flight International, said "Mr O'Leary's comments are very unfair and unwise. The CAA endorses CHIRP because it has brought many safety issues to light. It exposes the tips of icebergs and its value is demonstrated in exactly this kind of case when action is needed to prevent a problem from developing and resulting in a mistake that matters."
Mr. O'Leary said the incidents could never have happened as the controller described them in the report. "The report from one single air traffic controller is subjective nonsense with no basis in fact or evidence," he said. "The controller is duty bound by procedures to file a report to the Civil Aviation Authority. He's broken the law is he hasn't filed this concern with the CAA."
...
Mr O'Leary denied that Ryanair pilots were under any more pressure than those employed by full service airlines such as British Airways. "You can't fly any faster or slower even if you wanted to because there is a two minute separation between planes going into landing.
"Our pilots are under less pressure because we don't operate to the busiest airports like Heathrow, Charles de Gaulle or Frankfurt. I don't even know how we would put our pilots under pressure. What do you do? Call him up as he's coming in to land?"
...
(from another article)
Passengers who later complained to the Air Transport Users' Council found no help there either - Ryanair has refused to speak to the council for 18 months, describing it as "a bunch of halfwits".
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Ryanair, an airline that flew 11 million people last year, employs only four people in its customer service department. Getting through to complain in the first place is a major achievement.
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The number of complaints to the ATUC about low-cost airlines is on the increase, with Simon Evans, the chief executive, saying that Ryanair is "by far the worst violator".
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[MOL] ... described the controller who filed the report as a "loony".
...
[MOL] described CHIRP as "the equivalent of the PPrune chatroom", referring to the Professional Pilots Rumour Network website on which pilots are encouraged to exchange gossip about the industry under the protection of anonymity.
...
David Learmount, safety editor of Flight International, said "Mr O'Leary's comments are very unfair and unwise. The CAA endorses CHIRP because it has brought many safety issues to light. It exposes the tips of icebergs and its value is demonstrated in exactly this kind of case when action is needed to prevent a problem from developing and resulting in a mistake that matters."
Mr. O'Leary said the incidents could never have happened as the controller described them in the report. "The report from one single air traffic controller is subjective nonsense with no basis in fact or evidence," he said. "The controller is duty bound by procedures to file a report to the Civil Aviation Authority. He's broken the law is he hasn't filed this concern with the CAA."
...
Mr O'Leary denied that Ryanair pilots were under any more pressure than those employed by full service airlines such as British Airways. "You can't fly any faster or slower even if you wanted to because there is a two minute separation between planes going into landing.
"Our pilots are under less pressure because we don't operate to the busiest airports like Heathrow, Charles de Gaulle or Frankfurt. I don't even know how we would put our pilots under pressure. What do you do? Call him up as he's coming in to land?"
...
(from another article)
Passengers who later complained to the Air Transport Users' Council found no help there either - Ryanair has refused to speak to the council for 18 months, describing it as "a bunch of halfwits".
...
Ryanair, an airline that flew 11 million people last year, employs only four people in its customer service department. Getting through to complain in the first place is a major achievement.
...
The number of complaints to the ATUC about low-cost airlines is on the increase, with Simon Evans, the chief executive, saying that Ryanair is "by far the worst violator".
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Judging by the BBC news story below, Mr O'Leary is a decent upstanding man, who is always right 
Ryanair has been ordered to pay damages of 67,500 euros (£43,000; $64,650) to a passenger after a judge found the budget airline had gone back on a promise to give her free flights for life.
Jane O'Keeffe had been granted the free flights after becoming the airline's one millionth passenger in 1988.
'Shabby' treatment
Ms O'Keeffe had won the prize in a blaze of publicity, with widespread media coverage.
She had used the offer up until 1997 without any problems, despite the lack of a written contract.
The judge said her use of free travel was "modest".
"During most years she took three or four flights and certainly never exceeded five," he said.
But in 1997 she started to have problems, which came to a head when she attempted to book a flight from Dublin to Glasgow.
She complained to the airline, but the judge said her treatment by Ryanair over the incident had been "unpleasant and shabby".
He also said Ryanair's chief executive had been "hostile and aggressive" in his dealings with her.
Ryanair has been ordered to pay damages of 67,500 euros (£43,000; $64,650) to a passenger after a judge found the budget airline had gone back on a promise to give her free flights for life.
Jane O'Keeffe had been granted the free flights after becoming the airline's one millionth passenger in 1988.
'Shabby' treatment
Ms O'Keeffe had won the prize in a blaze of publicity, with widespread media coverage.
She had used the offer up until 1997 without any problems, despite the lack of a written contract.
The judge said her use of free travel was "modest".
"During most years she took three or four flights and certainly never exceeded five," he said.
But in 1997 she started to have problems, which came to a head when she attempted to book a flight from Dublin to Glasgow.
She complained to the airline, but the judge said her treatment by Ryanair over the incident had been "unpleasant and shabby".
He also said Ryanair's chief executive had been "hostile and aggressive" in his dealings with her.
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I come across this problem every day not just Ryanair but all the cheap airlines. Why the crews cannot exercise courtesy and patience is beyond belief. I thought pilots are laid back and cool. I thought wrong.
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<[MOL] described CHIRP as "the equivalent of the PPrune chatroom", referring to the Professional Pilots Rumour Network website on which pilots are encouraged to exchange gossip about the industry under the protection of anonymity. >
Hey! Huggie - CHIRP is THAT good?
Hey! Huggie - CHIRP is THAT good?
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Dear Mr O'Leary
You seem to speak your mind, so here's mine:
You can stuff your opinions where the sun don't shine.
We work damned hard for all carriers and go the extra bit whether it's for a full cost carrier, a 3rd world carrier or even a low cost operator.
People take the pi$$, which no doubt is the trigger for the Chirp report. I, as a muddled, confused, subjective ATCO agree totally with the colleague who had the balls to voice his/her genuine fears to Chirp.
How dare you denegrate a publication as esteemed as Chirp. Mind you, anything which gets in the way of your self opinionated self adoration seems to suffer the same diatribe and treatment.
You have single handedly shattered any goodwill there was between ATCOs and your company.
Next time your Dublin - UK and Europe flights get stuck at FL190, don't go bleating that ATC aren't going out of their way to obtain higher levels, as from where I'm seeing things, I feel I'll subjectively make the decision to keep you down there.
Kindest regards
160
You seem to speak your mind, so here's mine:
You can stuff your opinions where the sun don't shine.
We work damned hard for all carriers and go the extra bit whether it's for a full cost carrier, a 3rd world carrier or even a low cost operator.
People take the pi$$, which no doubt is the trigger for the Chirp report. I, as a muddled, confused, subjective ATCO agree totally with the colleague who had the balls to voice his/her genuine fears to Chirp.
How dare you denegrate a publication as esteemed as Chirp. Mind you, anything which gets in the way of your self opinionated self adoration seems to suffer the same diatribe and treatment.
You have single handedly shattered any goodwill there was between ATCOs and your company.
Next time your Dublin - UK and Europe flights get stuck at FL190, don't go bleating that ATC aren't going out of their way to obtain higher levels, as from where I'm seeing things, I feel I'll subjectively make the decision to keep you down there.
Kindest regards
160
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Well said 160
Next time i or many of my fellow "looneys" are faced with the 50:50 choice of who is No.1, who gets the direct route, who gets the best level, rest assured that MOL`s company will be second. Every hour, every day for the rest of my career !
Sorry to the many fine Ryanair pilots we work with but your boss has just shot himself in the foot.
Next time i or many of my fellow "looneys" are faced with the 50:50 choice of who is No.1, who gets the direct route, who gets the best level, rest assured that MOL`s company will be second. Every hour, every day for the rest of my career !
Sorry to the many fine Ryanair pilots we work with but your boss has just shot himself in the foot.
Last edited by Big Nose1; 20th Jun 2002 at 22:42.
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Absolutely.
MOL, you've blown it by your arrogance. It's very easy, sat in an office. On a crappy 1970s radar display it's a bit more subjective. Now that we have your full support and understanding, you can **** direct routings, **** ODLs (but you wouldn't know what they meant you beanstealer) and the same goes for goodwill. Best get your guys to revise their hold procedures.
BTW what, does it cost you if you want to cruise at 250 , but get held down at 170 for 200miles ? I really wanna know....... buddy.
MOL, you've blown it by your arrogance. It's very easy, sat in an office. On a crappy 1970s radar display it's a bit more subjective. Now that we have your full support and understanding, you can **** direct routings, **** ODLs (but you wouldn't know what they meant you beanstealer) and the same goes for goodwill. Best get your guys to revise their hold procedures.
BTW what, does it cost you if you want to cruise at 250 , but get held down at 170 for 200miles ? I really wanna know....... buddy.
Hudson Bay you wrote:
Just to ensure nobody gets the impression you are an Air Trafficer I would point out that you are a British European pilot.
You also have somewhat of a track record of posting anti-low cost airline comments on PPRuNe.
16th May on the easyJet purchase of Go:
3rd Feb on BA launching low cost fares out of Gatwick:
You repeatedly refer to EZY as Sleazyjet and just to prove you have chips on both shoulders you have a go at BMI on15th Feb about N. Ireland routes:
Cheers,
WWW
I come across this problem every day not just Ryanair but all the cheap airlines. Why the crews cannot exercise courtesy and patience is beyond belief. I thought pilots are laid back and cool. I thought wrong.
You also have somewhat of a track record of posting anti-low cost airline comments on PPRuNe.
16th May on the easyJet purchase of Go:
£374 million for a fleet of tatty aircraft and a couple of porta cabins! Sounds like a massive sum of money. British Airways will do well out of it though.
Good luck BA I am behind you. The market needed this to create some sort of normality in this topsy-turvy industry.
Nothing wrong with ATC apart from them long winded airways instructions. That I can cope with. What I do find frustrating is the managements desire to make BMI happy and shaft British European in the process. I hope B.E. transfers to Aldergrove and makes a success of it. Remember B.E. has the UK's 10th richest family behind it.
WWW
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Look, I may be wrong - and I'll own up right now that I don't have to deal with Ryanairs all day long so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
But as offensive as MOL's comments are, is threatening to hold his airline's flights at duff levels and always put the number 2 the right way to go? Even if it's just a threat made in the heat of the moment, it might give MOL an excuse to say he was right. And we have to remember it's not just aviation people who look at this site.
Perhaps rather than threats, posts should give examples of what a Ryanair flight did today, and tomorrow, and the day after. Then the jounos and others might be able to see who the loonys are.
And as rodan says, if a Ryanair does something dangerous, the rules say an MOR has to go in. So put one in.
But as offensive as MOL's comments are, is threatening to hold his airline's flights at duff levels and always put the number 2 the right way to go? Even if it's just a threat made in the heat of the moment, it might give MOL an excuse to say he was right. And we have to remember it's not just aviation people who look at this site.
Perhaps rather than threats, posts should give examples of what a Ryanair flight did today, and tomorrow, and the day after. Then the jounos and others might be able to see who the loonys are.
And as rodan says, if a Ryanair does something dangerous, the rules say an MOR has to go in. So put one in.
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I only wish MOL had been sat next to me on the only trip in a commercial flight where I have been in fear for my life:
Day-time approach, turn onto 'short' final where bank angle and induced 'G' make me think I'm about to become victim to another case of 737 rudder deflection. Whilst checking colour of underware and looking at equally ashen-faced punters sat around me, cheery S.European accented "chap" from up front announces that we have arrived 5 minutes ahead of schedule.
Sooooo close to telling said "chap" on the way out that he'd do well to remember that it was a 737 he was driving, not the CASA101 he once did!
Minicab anybody?
Day-time approach, turn onto 'short' final where bank angle and induced 'G' make me think I'm about to become victim to another case of 737 rudder deflection. Whilst checking colour of underware and looking at equally ashen-faced punters sat around me, cheery S.European accented "chap" from up front announces that we have arrived 5 minutes ahead of schedule.
Sooooo close to telling said "chap" on the way out that he'd do well to remember that it was a 737 he was driving, not the CASA101 he once did!
Minicab anybody?
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Spitoon: Yes, if these restrictions are artificial then that is counterproductive. But how many times do we give flight levels higher than they filed because they ask for it or give them shortcuts because they ask? We don't HAVE to do that, and many people might not bother for MOL's crowd now. If you have two neck and neck for the same point at the same level and one of them is one of MOL's outfit and the other isn't, then I suggest the temptation to reduce MOL's speed to get the other one in first might be quite high.
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WWW.
Why dont you get off hudson bay's back sounds like you really have a chip on your shoulder about him you shoud know that as a moderator that he was merely expressing an opinion.
Thanks.
Why dont you get off hudson bay's back sounds like you really have a chip on your shoulder about him you shoud know that as a moderator that he was merely expressing an opinion.
Thanks.
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Mr Willy Man,
Did I quote I am an Air Traffic Controller? I do not think I did. I was supporting our controllers which I believe we should all do. Once again you do not read the posts correctly, you jump to conclussions and to top that you assume. Something I hope you do not do in your job whatever your proffesion or trade is. That is assuming of course you do have some sort of qualification. Remember assumption is the mother of all _ _ _ _ups. Do what our company policy requires, sit on ones hands, count to ten and put your brain into gear. Keep up the good work LATCC and well done to the controller who had the balls to report this dangerous practice by some of our less proffesional colleagues.
Did I quote I am an Air Traffic Controller? I do not think I did. I was supporting our controllers which I believe we should all do. Once again you do not read the posts correctly, you jump to conclussions and to top that you assume. Something I hope you do not do in your job whatever your proffesion or trade is. That is assuming of course you do have some sort of qualification. Remember assumption is the mother of all _ _ _ _ups. Do what our company policy requires, sit on ones hands, count to ten and put your brain into gear. Keep up the good work LATCC and well done to the controller who had the balls to report this dangerous practice by some of our less proffesional colleagues.
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Isn't a failure to adhere to the <basic> speed controls unless authorised breaking the law?
Let's make them all sick of the number 939
Let's make them all sick of the number 939
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I was on the jumpseat of a LCO's aircraft when I was at CATC (or whatever it is now)
The FO asked for a direct routing which would take us outside CAS, and was told that a RIS would apply.
He turned to me and said
"To be sure, we're meant to get a RAS, so we are, but there's **** all up here"
Shortly followed by a sharp left turn.
Operator not named for retribution reasons
The FO asked for a direct routing which would take us outside CAS, and was told that a RIS would apply.
He turned to me and said
"To be sure, we're meant to get a RAS, so we are, but there's **** all up here"
Shortly followed by a sharp left turn.
Operator not named for retribution reasons
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SUPERB ATC
Dear Sirs,,madams,having flown pretty much worldwide,I have always found controllers of Uk airspace,the most courteous,and professional controllers, who always seem to have a great understanding of workload on the flight deck,,especially in approach phase.
For what its worth,this is greatly appreciated!,I havent met a pilot yet whos had a bad word to say about you,keep up the good work,,all ships,,one port,lets continue to help each other,,cheers!
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Meldrewv, in Ryanair's pilots' defence, its not the groundspeed that counts- its the airspeed!
I've been priviliged to be on the jumpseat of one of their 73's and a point was made of slowing to 250kts before descending below FL100. Hope it wasn't just for my benefit!
I've been priviliged to be on the jumpseat of one of their 73's and a point was made of slowing to 250kts before descending below FL100. Hope it wasn't just for my benefit!
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Glad to see a fair display of disquiet about the chief exec. of one of our major customers. We must be more than a bit pleased that RYR are not a member of TAG - imagine what the pay offer would be with Michael O' Lairy in charge?
I hope that nobody disadvantages RYR on purpose due to this childish outburst by an ignorant fool - not the point. As I said , in my experience RYR drivers have been more than happy to help, but I do think that this issue should now lead to 1261/939 action against ANY pilot who does not play by the rules.
Any pilot who thinks that I and others talk arrogantly should - as repeated in many other places - make the effort to visit atc, you WILL learn something.
Up the workers, down with bosses
ps Jetfella - thanks for your compliments, gracefully accepted
I hope that nobody disadvantages RYR on purpose due to this childish outburst by an ignorant fool - not the point. As I said , in my experience RYR drivers have been more than happy to help, but I do think that this issue should now lead to 1261/939 action against ANY pilot who does not play by the rules.
Any pilot who thinks that I and others talk arrogantly should - as repeated in many other places - make the effort to visit atc, you WILL learn something.
Up the workers, down with bosses
ps Jetfella - thanks for your compliments, gracefully accepted
Last edited by foo fighting; 25th Jun 2002 at 23:06.